can't mail handgun

[Loves2Shoot]

or machine parts works also

[Detlef]

Eric,

I don't believe that BATF has *any* jurisdiction over USPS! Several of my acquaintances in TX and FL regularly ship handguns via USPS, with full

knowledge of the receiving USPS employees, and have never had a problem

with this. I know, this is anecdotal evidence, but as you point out yourself,

the rules do not exclude shipping handguns (as is often erroneously quoted).

The problem with UPS shipping *machine parts* is twofold: i) insurance claims

and ii) the small print says when you ship through them they have the right

of inspecting your package. Where I reside, this right is exercised at the counter

(they look inside everything larger than a document and do not accept

taped packages).

--Detlef

[.40AET]

We have a Fedex account at work and I shipped my gun overnight twice last year with no problems. The pickup guy just logs it in and away it goes...

Now I'm getting paranoid about the whole thing.

[EricW]

Eric,

I don't believe that BATF has *any* jurisdiction over USPS!

Actually they do. If you read the document that is linked to above, the BATF is the final ruling authority on what is and is not allowed to be shipped. News to me, but it is the policy. I'm guessing that you are correct and FFL to FFL transfers are indeed allowed, but you'd never know what was legal by reading that policy.

Personally, if I had my druthers, I'd do ALL of my business with USPS. They consistently perform better than every other carrier. I've never had a counter agent that was anything but polite and helpful. And if anybody screws with your package, it's generally a Felony, so the risk of getting ripped off is drastically less with USPS. There's a reason why most diamond shipments in the US are shipped in a plain, brown wrapper via USPS *uninsured*.

Finally, I hate to sound like like anyone's Mom here, but sending a firearm *undeclared* through ANY carrier, governmental or private is prohibited under Federal law. Check BATF's site for further info. I have personal opinions about the advisability of declaring a firearms to any private carrier, but I'll keep them to myself.

=======================

BTW, I think Warpspeed just must *like* abuse. Good service? FedEx? I didn't know those two terms ever collided! (Luv ya like a brother, Ward)

[uscbigdawg]

Just shipped my Open gun to Rusty Kidd. Put it in a box and walked into the local mailbox-ish place two days ago. It got there yesterday via UPS. It'll be back, "next week" (Rusty kidd joke).

Rich

[Precision40]

Disassemble the pistol and ship it UPS or FedEx as "machine parts" I've done it for years with no problems.

[Rob Boudrie]

just to clarify: It is *NOT* illegal to ship guns through the US Postal Service, you just need to be an FFL. If you are, it was and still is by far the most economical way.

--Detlef

Postals ship of handguns is only legal between FFLs (and does not include a non-FFL sending the gun to an FFL), and you must have postal form 1508 on file at the post office from which you are shipping.

[Patrick Sweeney]

I used to ship guns from the warehouse where I was the assistant manager (with the knowledge and approval of the manager) via UPS. Once I shipped a pair of handguns back to the gunsmith I'd borrowed them from for an article. I insured it for $6,000. The driver told me "They'll open that at the office to verify the contents." My reply was "As soon as you drive off I'm phoning the recipient. You just signed for a package worth six grand. If it arrives having been opened, I'm telling him to refuse shipment and return it to me. When it gets here, I'll have a notary and my Lawyer on hand, with camera, and we'll see if what I shipped comes back in one piece. Oh, by the way, the ATF would be really curious about just which manager took possession of a handgun in interstate transport, without benefit of a Federal License." (Ok, I was laying it on a bit thick.)

It arrived unopened, and I immediately switched to FedEx.

Really, I haven't had any problems from them except for that rifle case they left on my front door the day before christmas eve, without a signature.

[uscbigdawg]

That's one of the cooky things that goes on with firearms. My DCM rifle showed up in a FedEx tube on my doorstep with no signature. My father's Kimber, when it came back from the factory came in a padded envelope (which REALLY pissed the old man off since he sent it in a hard case).

Rich

[Mistral404]

I used to do FedEx alot.

Check their rules.

Typically, either the sender or receiver has to be an FFL--IF you declare a firearm. Their rules also say the gun has to be inoperable-typically meaning the slide and frame separated. Insure it.

I have sent a bunch of guns undeclared and insured them. Never had to file a claim.

[Shooter Grrl]

What a bunch of horse pucky you guys! YOU can send YOUR gun anywhere you want to! To yourself, to a friend to hold for you, to a gunsmith, pretty much anywhere! Where are all these stupid rules coming from?

[Ross Carter]

If you want to read UPS policy it is here http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/resources...s/firearms.html

[Mistral404]

Actually, You can not ship them anywhere you want.

There are federal regulations, local regulations, and company policy to contend with when trying to safely and legally ship firearms. There is a prcess to follow and policies to abide by when shipping firearms.

It seems the advise so far has been pretty good which is bascially understand the 'rules of the road.' There will be fewer surprises.

I have logged over three hundred thousand air miles travelling with a firearm. Matt Burkett is the only person I know who probably has logged more miles.

I have not shipped as many firearms as most. Probably 20 times. Mostly I receive them via UPS and I ship using FedEx.

Either a retail outlet or UPS lost my frame for 4 weeks. It was to the point that the manufacturer was in the process of sending me a new one, when it finally showed up. FedEx got a little strange once, when I had to ship a firearm because the United Ticket Agent (a supervisor) got prissy about not having the firearm in a hard case. It was locked in a softcase within a soft case.

[reneet]

Just shipped my Open gun to Rusty Kidd.  Put it in a box and walked into the local mailbox-ish place two days ago.  It got there yesterday via UPS.  It'll be back, "next week" (Rusty kidd joke). 

Rich

Not a good thing. IF you use what UPS or FedEx calls ASO (Authorized shipping Outlet), firearms are not covered for loss! As long as you don't need to file a claim, you're OK though.

[reneet]

FROM UPS Web site...

"Shipping Firearms

Special Procedures for Shipping Firearms

Use These UPS Services for Your Firearm Shipment

Firearms will be transported only between licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, and licensed collectors, as defined in the United States Gun Control Act of 1968."

This policy is not correct and was erroneously changed by some ignorant UPS schmuck!

I've just brought this to the attention of both my local and national UPS Representative who is investigating and will let you know as soon as I hear back from him.

[BillD]

Disassemble the pistol and ship it UPS or FedEx as "machine parts" I've done it for years with no problems.

And you are committing a felony every time you do it.

[BDH]

Wow!! Let me know when everyone figures this out...

[Mistral404]

Are you confusing United Postal Service - UPS with United States Postal Service .

One is a private company with polices the other is a quasi-governmental with regulations based on law.

Violating the second one gets postal inspectors, etc. on your tail.

[Sixgun]

Are you confusing United Postal Service - UPS with United States Postal Service .

I thought that UPS was United Parcel Service not United Postal Service.

I've had good luck using Fed-Ex. It really should be a crime for what we get stuck paying to send our handguns to the platers or gunsmiths, etc....

Ray

[diehli]

USPS = United States Postal Service (Government-run organization)

UPS = United Parcel Service (private organization)

[Ross Carter]

I have seen that every time this subject comes up on any forum the same thing happens. You can put up links and quote but it doesn't seem to affect some peoples beliefs. It is a fact that United Parcel Service policy is not to ship firearms except between FFL's, it's right there on the web. The ATF regulations are on the web too if you want to look for them. The ATF is the controlling agency as far as the law goes and there regulations cover shipping firearms, the postal service is not exempt. UPS policy is not law but the law does require you to declare if your shipping a firearm. There is a lot of faulty information being spread around, do your own research and make your choices but saving a couple of bucks is not worth losing your firearm rights for.

[Detlef]

QUOTE (Precision40 @ May 14 2004, 12:21 PM)

Disassemble the pistol and ship it UPS or FedEx as "machine parts" I've done it for years with no problems. 

And you are committing a felony every time you do it.

Quote what (state or federal) criminal code item was violated, and quote that it is a felony.

--Detlef

[BillD]

QUOTE (Precision40 @ May 14 2004, 12:21 PM)

Disassemble the pistol and ship it UPS or FedEx as "machine parts" I've done it for years with no problems. 

And you are committing a felony every time you do it.

Quote what (state or federal) criminal code item was violated, and quote that it is a felony.

--Detlef

I will let the BATF and the postal inspectors do that.

Common sense:

If you have to have an FFL to ship through the post office, taking a gun apart and calling it machine parts is not making any difference. It is still shipping a gun without using an FFL and you haven't been able to do that since they passed the laws in the 60's after kennedy was killed with a mail order rifle. You may not get caught but if you do, jail time will be in your future.

[Carlos]

Hi Kath! You wrote: "Where are all these stupid rules coming from?"

I will not comment on mailing of hanguns through common carriers. However, one source of trouble & confusion is: State law. Here is the problem: several states ban new handgun possession/acquisition: example: California, Maryland & New York. EXCEPTION: permit holders (in New York) or persons the state pre approves & allows to posses a handgun -possibly after a waiting period (Maryland & CA - probably several others incl. Michigan I believe).

How does that affect mailing a gun to yourself at a match hotel or just sending it to a bud/family member to hold it for you? Its still your gun once you eventually get to the destination state, right?

No, not in Maryland anyway. Maryland looks only at the "transfer". A gun is transferred to the non-FFL holding person who receives the gun & they are now considered the owner in MD - not you. For example, I no longer live in MD but if I did live there and I wanted to lend my pistol to my MD resident dad for less than 24 hours, that's ok, no law broken. Lend it for more than 24 hours and it becomes a "transfer". A transfer requires asking the state for permission to transfer through a long form processed through an FFL and a 2 week waiting period (that often takes longer) and a few other rules such as case fingerprinting for new guns, internal gunlocks for new guns, the gun being on MD's "Handgun Board approved list", etc. If all goes well, the form is stamped "NOT DISAPPROVED" (no, I am not kidding) and my dad can leave the FFL with the "loaned gun". To give it back to me, the gun has to go through the same process & sit at the FFL holder's shop. That's right - in MD you can't lend guns anymore, give them as gifts, or send them to a friend to hold at your destination. Whoever receives the gun in such states must first ask permission of the state to receive the gun. Then you have to ask permission again to get "your" gun back, since once its trasferred, its no longer yours.

While lending a gun to a frined may be legal in your state, the laws of your state do not travel with you to Maryland. When in MD, you must obey MD law. Kinda makes you think twice about shooting a big match in MD unless you drive in w/ your gun in your possession.

This is what is called the "gun show loophole". If the Dems manage to "close the loophole" then you will have to ask an FFL for permission everytime a gun leaves your possession for more than 24 hours. Does it seem like an important issue now? I think it is an important issue.

Anyway, beyond the confusing maze of federal law on top of the even more confusing maze of "policy", there is State law to consider when mailing a gun through either USPS or a common carrier. Sorry if things are more confusing now. Be careful out there. Regards, D.

[Rob Boudrie]

No, not in Maryland anyway.  Maryland looks only at the "transfer". A gun is transferred to the non-FFL holding person who receives the gun & they are now considered the owner in MD - not you.

You need to check the common carrier statutes. When a package is delivered to an entity with common carrier status (for example, UPS or Fedex but not your local pack & send), they do not legally have "posession" - which is what allows them to knowingly possess machine guns, narcotics, etc. shipped in lawful commerce, and what protects them from a posession rap if they are caught in unknowing posession. It may be that legal "transfer" does not occur when a package has been placed in the custody of a common carrier (for example, shipping the gun to yourself).