jrbet83 Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Just started shooting Limited. Never gone through an inspection. I'm running SNL, so there's that little groove that your base pad lips slide into. Obviously there's a little bit of clearance between the two (groove is thicker than the mags lips). Making a tiny bit of play up and down with the base pad (due to the spring pushing the base pad down). So with the spring in the mag, it pushes the lips to the bottom of the groove measuring my mag at 141.30. If I push the base pad up slightly, pushing the lip to the top of the groove, they measure 141.15. My question is, when they use the gauge do they push your mag into the gauge? If they do that the base pad should get pushed up and be fine. If they just use it as a visual guide, then I'm thinking I'm in trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 If you have to squeeze it to get it to fit then it doesnt fit, No accordion magazines allowed. You can probably take a little off the feedlips though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 You can also take a bit off the bottom of the SNL pads. I had to do that with all but one of mine. Doesn't take much. I'm just glad they didn't check last year at the L10 Nationals. I didn't bother to check the mags until a month or two ago. Would not have been a happy camper if I got bumped, but I know exactly who's fault it would have been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 I'll be. I had to look that one up I woulda thought there was no mag size limit in L10, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 (edited) If you have to squeeze it to get it to fit then it doesnt fit, No accordion magazines allowed. You can probably take a little off the feedlips though. Can you cite the USPSA rule about no accordion magazines? I don't think the IPSC rule got copied over into the the USPSA rules. As I read the current NROI ruling, it only talks about no curved magazines. I do know that there was a case when somebody tried an accordion mag at a major IPSC match a few years ago. That resulted in the addition of a statement to IPSC Standard Division rules: Appendix D2.16 "... Additionally, telescoping magazines and/or magazines with spring-loaded bases or base pads are expressly prohibited.". Of course, I've heard some people threaten to DQ for unsportsmanlike conduct if such a thing were tried in USPSA, but I don't know if anybody has actually been DQ'd for it and if there was any arbitration to appeal it. Anybody know? Edited August 5, 2011 by Skydiver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 (edited) Okay, I found the old threads about measuring mags (and the sometimes lack of standard procedure on how much daylight should be visible and how much pressure maybe applied): http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=113158&view=findpost&p=1283694 http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=119392&view=findpost&p=1350860 http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=111767&view=findpost&p=1268757 Edited August 5, 2011 by Skydiver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 (edited) Magazine measuring procedures are pictured in E1, they show a measurement of the overall length of the magazine, Its not complicated. If your magazine is 141.26mm long, welcome to open. The simplest thing would be to go back to the 140mm limit like it's supposeds to be, the 1.26 was just to allow some wiggle room in the gauge, Then people started taking advantage of the wiggle room. If I was king of the world I would say mag limits are 140mm so if it was even close to not fitting you'd know it was over. Currently there is no real clear direction from Sedro, My feelings is the mag length rule is a round count limit, Use as many rounds as you want but they have to fit in this length, That pad is gonna expand when you load it. Giving more usable room than a pad on the same tube that doest expand. If I was RM I would use the gauge as a screener, but before I bumped anyone to open or DQ I would measure with a machinist rule IAW with the actual published rulebook. Until such time as NROI comes up with some pictures. Edited August 6, 2011 by Joe4d Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 Magazine measuring procedures are pictured in E1, they show a measurement of the overall length of the magazine, Its not complicated. If your magazine is 141.26mm long, welcome to open. Unless you are shooting a Single Stack in L10. You get 171.25mm then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrbet83 Posted August 6, 2011 Author Share Posted August 6, 2011 So for the mag to pass, it needs to pass just being placed in the gauge. No force can put on the front of the mag pushing the back of the mag up against the back of the gauge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 So for the mag to pass, it needs to pass just being placed in the gauge. No force can put on the front of the mag pushing the back of the mag up against the back of the gauge. I try to give the shooter as good a chance to be within the limits as possible. I will put some pressure on the mag and if it fits, they're good to go. I read nothing in the rulebook that dictates otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 Unfotunately until NROI comes up with a ruling, your gonna be at the mercy of the RM. The only real published standard with an actual description is a machinist rule as pictured in the rule book. NROI says to use the gauge but doesnt really specify how. It then becomes a judgement call. I feel it is measured as used, others would allow some squeezing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pvhendrix Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 I can find nothing in the rule book that states, the mag must be loaded, when measured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeInNePa Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 Magazine measuring procedures are pictured in E1, they show a measurement of the overall length of the magazine, Its not complicated. If your magazine is 141.26mm long, welcome to open. The simplest thing would be to go back to the 140mm limit like it's supposeds to be, the 1.26 was just to allow some wiggle room in the gauge, Then people started taking advantage of the wiggle room. If I was king of the world I would say mag limits are 140mm so if it was even close to not fitting you'd know it was over. Currently there is no real clear direction from Sedro, My feelings is the mag length rule is a round count limit, Use as many rounds as you want but they have to fit in this length, That pad is gonna expand when you load it. Giving more usable room than a pad on the same tube that doest expand. If I was RM I would use the gauge as a screener, but before I bumped anyone to open or DQ I would measure with a machinist rule IAW with the actual published rulebook. Until such time as NROI comes up with some pictures. I think you meant that over the years, there have been a few different lengths of mag tubes produced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 No I meant exactly what I said, people are using the wiggle room as the new max. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 No I meant exactly what I said, people are using the wiggle room as the new max. I bet if we ever figure out how to precisely control all the variables that go into a bullet load, some people will have major loads at exactly 165 PF if they can get away with it, instead of aiming for 172 (to give themselves some leeway in case some of the variables get out of control). Anyway, back on topic: Unlike the older green (2004) rulebook which listed 170mm and 140mm maximums with 1.25mm tolerance, the current blue rulebook's appendices list 171.25mm and 141.25mm as maximums. Can we blame people for taking the letter of the law to task? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 (edited) I'll be. I had to look that one up I woulda thought there was no mag size limit in L10, Actually, Joe you were correct. There wasn't a magazine size limit for L10 in the green (2004) rulebook. The length limit was introduced in the blue (2008) rulebook. Edited August 7, 2011 by Skydiver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeInNePa Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 No I meant exactly what I said, people are using the wiggle room as the new max. The max length is 141.25 and 171.25, there is no wiggle room. The minimum PF is 165 and 125, there is no wiggle room. My mags fit the gauge, with no room to spare. You could not fit a human hair in between the two. I've never minored (except when shooting Production, then I have whatever Blazer gets), but I have had a 165.1PF at a major match in Open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrbet83 Posted August 14, 2011 Author Share Posted August 14, 2011 No I meant exactly what I said, people are using the wiggle room as the new max. The max length is 141.25 and 171.25, there is no wiggle room. The minimum PF is 165 and 125, there is no wiggle room. My mags fit the gauge, with no room to spare. You could not fit a human hair in between the two. I've never minored (except when shooting Production, then I have whatever Blazer gets), but I have had a 165.1PF at a major match in Open. We know what the magazine length is....it's printed on page 85. No one's looking for "wiggle" room, just a clear written procedure, so a mag does pass one match and fail another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul-the new guy Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 Do all of my magazines have to fit? Do they all get measured? Do I just get to pick one of them? I bought some of the Dawson S.N.L. base pads and I don't have a magazine gauge. I don't want to get to a larger match and find out some or all of my magazines are too long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 Do all of my magazines have to fit? Do they all get measured? Yes and maybe. Do I just get to pick one of them? No I bought some of the Dawson S.N.L. base pads and I don't have a magazine gauge. I don't want to get to a larger match and find out some or all of my magazines are too long. You would be well served either buying the gauge or finding one you can borrow. All of your mags must fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztecdriver Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 (edited) Do all of my magazines have to fit? Do they all get measured? Do I just get to pick one of them? I bought some of the Dawson S.N.L. base pads and I don't have a magazine gauge. I don't want to get to a larger match and find out some or all of my magazines are too long. Yes, Maybe, No. Get a mag gauge, is best I can tell you. I had my mags checked and a piece of grip tape near put me in open... a Mag gauge is not that big of an investment. Dang it John... I just typed all this so I'm leaving it. Edited September 28, 2011 by aztecdriver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul-the new guy Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 Thanks guys. I am broke after buying all of this stuff and was just trying to be cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 Thanks guys. I am broke after buying all of this stuff and was just trying to be cheap. I don't have one either but I have a friend that does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 ...just trying to be cheap. Keep in mind the cost to shoot a major match (for no score). Plus, knowing that you aren't cheating in an extra round on your competition at local matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AzYooper Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 Do all of my magazines have to fit? Do they all get measured? Do I just get to pick one of them? I bought some of the Dawson S.N.L. base pads and I don't have a magazine gauge. I don't want to get to a larger match and find out some or all of my magazines are too long. I don't have a gauge either, but I do have a ruler. It is difficult and time consuming to get an exact measurement with the ruler, especially when you are really close like me, but it does work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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