Hard Cover Hosin'

[centermass]

Can I require in the WSB that the end arrays of this field course be required to shoot thru the barrel ports?

Level 1 local match.

[shooterbenedetto]

Nice! but with those head shots I dont think its hosing..but good.

Edited June 22, 2011 by shooterbenedetto

[spanky]

No you cannot.

1.1.5.1 Level I matches may use shooting boxes and specify where or when specific target arrays may be engaged, and may specify

mandatory reloads in short and medium courses only (not in a long course).

[centermass]

So if I put a shooting box in front of the ports as separate shooting areas w/o being able to see them from anywhere else, I should be good to go?

Edited June 23, 2011 by centermass

[Avezorak]

That should work. Copious amounts of No Shoots work too. Its a risk/reward thing. I like your stage BTW. It gave me an idea for next months match.....

[Avezorak]

Wait I read that wrong, you dont want to put a box there, just make your fault lines funnel to the barrel and make it where you can ONLY see all targets thru said barrel.

[centermass]

On second thought shooting boxes make no difference, as the shooter isn't forced to shoot thru the ports.

I think the rule Spanky cites does actually allow for me to specify having to shoot thru ports to engage the end arrays.

"specify where or when specific target arrays may be engaged"

[Don Springer]

Depends. What differentiates a long course from a short one? In order to get past the rules lawyers I'd just funnel the box to the barrel and stick a bunch of no shoots over and around it. People will get the hint.

[colt]

looks like your going to have some shoot through in the port on the left shooting the right target.

If you want me to shoot through the barrel you need to block it so its the only place to see it. or I could shoot over the top. Free style in large field course.

Brent

[Corey]

We had a texas star thru a barrel this month at a local match. Barrels around it and a hardcover wall on top forced shots through the barrel by DESIGN. Thats the best way to get a shooter to do what you want.

[Chris Keen]

Correct .... Addition of a wall with a port/window and a barrel in front of it would work too.

[spanky]

On second thought shooting boxes make no difference, as the shooter isn't forced to shoot thru the ports.

I think the rule Spanky cites does actually allow for me to specify having to shoot thru ports to engage the end arrays.

"specify where or when specific target arrays may be engaged"

You're missing the relevant part of that rule.

1.1.5.1 Level I matches may use shooting boxes and specify where or when specific target arrays may be engaged, and may specify mandatory reloads in short and medium courses only (not in a long course).

1.2.1.1 “Short Courses” must not require more than 8 rounds to complete and no more than 2 shooting locations.

1.2.1.2 “Medium Courses” must not require more than 16 rounds to complete and no more than 3 shooting locations. Course design and construction must not require more than 8 scoring hits from any single location or view, nor allow a competitor to shoot all targets in the course of fire from any single location or view.

Edited June 23, 2011 by spanky

[spanky]

[centermass]

Great idea!

Thanks for the rule clarification also. Guess I'm only reading what I want to see...

[Mark R]

1.1.5.1 Level I matches may use shooting boxes and specify where or when specific target arrays may be engaged, and may specify mandatory reloads in short and medium courses only (not in a long course).

Spanky...I read 1.1.5.1 with 3 "ANDs". If you break up the sentence into three phrases referring to Level I matches, it seems you can specify where and when you can engage the steel arrays (phrase two of the sentence).

Level I matches may use shooting boxes and specify where or when specific target arrays may be engaged, and may specify mandatory reloads in short and medium courses only (not in a long course).

Or in other words...

Level I matches may use shooting boxes and

Level I matches may specify where or when specific target arrays may be engaged, and

Level I matches may specify mandatory reloads in short and medium courses only (not in a long course).

Then the WSB could/should state "...all steel must be engaged through barrels, 1 procedural per shot fired for not shooting steel through barrels."

Edited June 23, 2011 by Mark R

[spanky]

Interesting Mark, thanks for enlightening me. I suppose my grammar nazi level has been kicked down a notch.

[centermass]

1.1.5.1 Level I matches may use shooting boxes and specify where or when specific target arrays may be engaged, and may specify mandatory reloads in short and medium courses only (not in a long course).

Spanky...I read 1.1.5.1 with 3 "ANDs". If you break up the sentence into three phrases referring to Level I matches, it seems you can specify where and when you can engage the steel arrays (phrase two of the sentence).

Level I matches may use shooting boxes and specify where or when specific target arrays may be engaged, and may specify mandatory reloads in short and medium courses only (not in a long course).

Or in other words...

Level I matches may use shooting boxes and

Level I matches may specify where or when specific target arrays may be engaged, and

Level I matches may specify mandatory reloads in short and medium courses only (not in a long course).

Then the WSB could/should state "...all steel must be engaged through barrels, 1 procedural per shot fired for not shooting steel through barrels."

That's how I interpreted it originally, did not want to turn into subjective grammar discussion. Next time I run a match I plan to state WSB as above.

Thanks for hashing this over.

[colt]

Around here if you use box's to box stuff you will wounder where all your shooter went.

Brent

[Mark R]

Interesting Mark, thanks for enlightening me. I suppose my grammar nazi level has been kicked down a notch.

Sorry Spanky, but after looking at the rule book and reviewing the rule in writing, the first "AND" does not include a comma therefore the 1st and 2nd phrase seem to go together (from a grammar viewpoint). So now I wonder if there is a grammar issue with the rule (since I bet no English major has reviewed the rules)...or do we need shooting boxes to specify shooting arrays??? Comma's do make a difference in lawyer talk. Now I'm second guessing myself.

But I read 3 phrases from the get go. Anyone else want to chime in?

[Mark R]

That's how I interpreted it originally, did not want to turn into subjective grammar discussion. Next time I run a match I plan to state WSB as above.

Thanks for hashing this over.

The rules are suppose to alleviate subjectivity, however interpretation does take over in some instances. Last couple of rule threads have demonstrated this. So read the rule, apply as necessary, and be ready to change the outcome.

[Skydiver]

Yes, if you start breaking at "and's" without commas, that would mean you have to break at the last "and" between "short" and "medium".

I've always read the rule as:

Level I matches may use shooting boxes and specify where or when specific target arrays may be engaged.

and

Level I matches may use may specify mandatory reloads in short and medium courses only (not in a long course).

In an email thread elsewhere, friend has gone back through the old rulebooks and done an analysis on the transformation of this rule and the intent is still present: "Level I mandatory reloads allowed only in short and medium courses". "Level I may specify shooting location or order." I believe the latter is to keep clubs from having to invest in a ton of props.

[Mark R]

Yes, if you start breaking at "and's" without commas, that would mean you have to break at the last "and" between "short" and "medium".

I've always read the rule as:

Level I matches may use shooting boxes and specify where or when specific target arrays may be engaged.

and

Level I matches may use may specify mandatory reloads in short and medium courses only (not in a long course).

In an email thread elsewhere, friend has gone back through the old rulebooks and done an analysis on the transformation of this rule and the intent is still present: "Level I mandatory reloads allowed only in short and medium courses". "Level I may specify shooting location or order." I believe the latter is to keep clubs from having to invest in a ton of props.

Yep,certainly another way to look at it. But I think we are considering the same understanding in that a level I match you can specify engagement from a certain location such as "...all steel must be engaged through the barrels..." without having to mask it up with barrels and walls to force the shooting through the barrels... and this would be legal for Level I.

Edited June 24, 2011 by Mark R

[ArmdCtzn]

The vibrations when I shoot through that barrel will cause the barrel on top to fall on me.

It won't happen to any other shooter, but it will fall on me. I won't see it coming, either. It will land on me while I am shooting and everyone will get a good laugh.

Story of my life. I've learned to just accept it.

[bluenite]

The vibrations when I shoot through that barrel will cause the barrel on top to fall on me.

It won't happen to any other shooter, but it will fall on me. I won't see it coming, either. It will land on me while I am shooting and everyone will get a good laugh.

Story of my life. I've learned to just accept it.

Maybe this would suite you better, if it was not a scoring and reshoot nightmare I would put it in a stage.

Leonard

[spanky]

The vibrations when I shoot through that barrel will cause the barrel on top to fall on me.

It won't happen to any other shooter, but it will fall on me. I won't see it coming, either. It will land on me while I am shooting and everyone will get a good laugh.

Story of my life. I've learned to just accept it.

I figured that someone would assume you would somehow affix the barrels together (target sticks and screws should work well).