Sight Acquisition from Holster

[Sin-ster]

When I focus on a particular spot on the target during the draw, the sights align with it naturally-- hands following eyes, as the saying goes. However, when I try to speed up, I end up looking past/over/around the sights for the first shot.

When do you all pick up the front post during the draw? I've been focusing on the target until the sights are aligned (and blurred), and then locking in on the front post. This afternoon (during dry fire), I tried picking up the sights during the press out and found it to be much faster. My only concern is that I won't be able to achieve my intended POA this way.

Do the hands still follow the eyes if you move the eyes a split second earlier in an effort to pick up the sights?

[whistlepig]

what works for me might not work for you......... I find that as the sights come up my focus is changing from the target to the sights...... There are probably a million better ways to answer your question, but I keep my eyes on the target and bring the sights into place..... as that happens, I find that my change in focus is happened and im ready to shoot.

[Sin-ster]

what works for me might not work for you......... I find that as the sights come up my focus is changing from the target to the sights...... There are probably a million better ways to answer your question, but I keep my eyes on the target and bring the sights into place..... as that happens, I find that my change in focus is happened and im ready to shoot.

So you start to pick them up on the way out, and then find them clearly indexed on the target once the weapon is raised. That sounds like what I've been working on today, and I've found thus far that my POA seems to be the same as if I wait until the pistol is steady before finding the clear sight picture.

It's possible that for longer/more precise shots, I'll have to revert to the old method and slow down a bit in the process.

[juan]

from the push from the high ready to wear my arms are extended my eyeballs drop from the tgt to the front sight.

then I can crack off the first shot as soon as possible with a clear sight.

I follow the front sight into the tgt.

[AWLAZS]

The way you do your draw affects how quickly you are able to start seeing the sights. Where do you put your support hand on the pistol. If it is low you may be pushing the gun out almost to the target before you can see it.

If you do a high draw (the support hand thumb comes close to touching your chin) you can start using the sights fast. The gun will point a little muzzle high and level off when you extend to the target.

[juan]

The way you do your draw affects how quickly you are able to start seeing the sights. Where do you put your support hand on the pistol. If it is low you may be pushing the gun out almost to the target before you can see it.

If you do a high draw (the support hand thumb comes close to touching your chin) you can start using the sights fast. The gun will point a little muzzle high and level off when you extend to the target.

yes I agree

muzzle is high and I watch it drop into the notch

[benos]

When I focus on a particular spot on the target during the draw, the sights align with it naturally-- hands following eyes, as the saying goes. However, when I try to speed up...

Don't do that.

Do the hands still follow the eyes if you move the eyes a split second earlier in an effort to pick up the sights?

Yes.

Before you draw, look right where you want the bullet to hit the target. As soon as you begin the draw, bring your focus back to where the front sight will appear. When you get it right the front sight will be in razor sharp focus as soon as it stops moving.

[Sin-ster]

When I focus on a particular spot on the target during the draw, the sights align with it naturally-- hands following eyes, as the saying goes. However, when I try to speed up...

Don't do that.

Do the hands still follow the eyes if you move the eyes a split second earlier in an effort to pick up the sights?

Yes.

Before you draw, look right where you want the bullet to hit the target. As soon as you begin the draw, bring your focus back to where the front sight will appear. When you get it right the front sight will be in razor sharp focus as soon as it stops moving.

Well, trying to speed up for the sake of trying new things! But yeah-- definitely a no-no.

I never considered just shifting focus without moving the eyes-- that makes way too much sense! I think I was doing this by accident, although I was visualizing myself actually glancing down to find the post on its way towards the target. Now that I'm thinking about it the right way, it's a million times more natural and coupled with the practice I've put in since making this post, it's already starting to drop my par time a little bit.

I will also evaluate the draw some more and see about pressing out from a higher position. Right now, I'm somewhere in the middle-- not too low, but not high enough to make the most out of the sight picture during the press out. Coupled with benos' advice, I think I've got a winner here! Thanks a ton guys!

[benos]

Here's another visual technique you might experiment with. Start with a hard target focus (the same as before). But upon "stand by," quickly bring your focus back to where the front sight will appear. Scientifically, it should not be possible to do that, because there is nothing to focus on. But I felt like I learned to do it. The result was that I had a razor sharp front sight focus, simultaneous with the front sight's appearance.

[Sin-ster]

Here's another visual technique you might experiment with. Start with a hard target focus (the same as before). But upon "stand by," quickly bring your focus back to where the front sight will appear. Scientifically, it should not be possible to do that, because there is nothing to focus on. But I felt like I learned to do it. The result was that I had a razor sharp front sight focus, simultaneous with the front sight's appearance.

That's exactly how I've been doing it since your first suggestion. It's almost impossible to verbalize the process/sensation, but I'm 99% sure we're on the same page. Now it seems to be happening on its own-- which is a good thing while shooting, so I can be aware instead of concentrated on any particular thing. (Yep-- read the book. )

It's also made transitions a lot more natural; I'm sure they're faster as well, which we'll find out when my elbow heals up a bit more and I break the timer out again.

[razerok1]

I find that when I'm looking at the target as I draw it takes me a second to find the sights .. But if I look down at the gun as I draw I find the sight on the way up to the target..... so it's a bit faster for me to glance down at the gun and follow my sights as I put the muzzle on target.. Then again the r.o usually runs me with a calendar....

[benos]

Here's another visual technique you might experiment with. Start with a hard target focus (the same as before). But upon "stand by," quickly bring your focus back to where the front sight will appear. Scientifically, it should not be possible to do that, because there is nothing to focus on. But I felt like I learned to do it. The result was that I had a razor sharp front sight focus, simultaneous with the front sight's appearance.

That's exactly how I've been doing it since your first suggestion. It's almost impossible to verbalize the process/sensation, but I'm 99% sure we're on the same page. Now it seems to be happening on its own-- which is a good thing while shooting, so I can be aware instead of concentrated on any particular thing. (Yep-- read the book. )

It's also made transitions a lot more natural; I'm sure they're faster as well, which we'll find out when my elbow heals up a bit more and I break the timer out again.

If you haven't found/tried the Transition Drill thread, check it out.

I find that when I'm looking at the target as I draw it takes me a second to find the sights .. But if I look down at the gun as I draw I find the sight on the way up to the target.....

I'd highly recommend to stop doing that. That can seem to help in the beginning, especially if the RO times you with a calendar, but it will definitely hold you back as you get more experience.

Dryfire the crap out of it. At first, don't even incorporate a target. Assume a start position, close your eyes, and draw to your index position. Open your eyes - the goal being perfect sight alignment.

Once you can draw to a perfect sight alignment every time with your eyes closed, then practice until you can draw onto a target with perfect alignment, every time.

be

[Loves2Shoot]

This is a trick to accomplish what BE is saying. Stick your thumb out in front of you and focus on the fingernail, then drop the thumb still focusing on that spot. All you will see is blur, but feel where your eyes are focusing. Next, look at your target, when the buzzer goes, put your eyes into the same position (yea it will be blurry) and when your sights hit eye level they will be come crystal clear since your eyes are trying to find something to see (I think.) Once you do it a few times and your eyes know where to go, the sights will be perfectly visible over the spot you want to shoot the instant they gun levels off and you'll be ready to pull the trigger.

[Sin-ster]

Well, live fire today definitely confirmed it-- the splits are faster than before. Accuracy actually seemed to improve, although it's probably not entirely due to this new sight focus during the draw. At the same time, it is distinctly possible that I rushed a few shots without clear sight focus in the past that lead to some fliers-- and this particular (correct) method makes that much more difficult to manage.

Still slow as all get out, though. What are GM splits from holster in Production again?

[southtexaswoman]

BE and Loves2Shoot, I definitely am going to try that. Thanks for the help.

[Loves2Shoot]

What are GM splits from holster in Production again?

What distance, size of target?

[doubleforte78]

I've practiced this a lot in dry fire. I found it helpful to practice the draw slowly while paying attention to my visual focus and eye tension. I try to start focused on my fist target and relax my face and eyes just before the draw while staying aware of the space where my front sight will appear. I've also experimented with bringing the front sight and muzzle up into my vision first and then bring the rear sight up on the press out. Not sure if this is a good idea. At a match, I usually just draw without a lot of awareness used on these details and the dry fire practice seems to be paying off.

[Remington4Life]

Practicing at a slower rate, and letting the muscle memory soak in works well for me too. In a match there is no slowing down, or do it this way or that, I am just relying on my practice to take care of what has become reactive so I can concentrate on other things.

[MemphisMechanic]

Sin-Ster, GM's run roughly .75-.90 seconds to draw to the first target in practice, focusing solely on that skill.

You won't often see a sub-second draw at a match, because no one shoots a match at break-neck practice speeds, and stage designers seldom give us a wide-open 5-7yd target, without running or twisting into some slightly off-balance position first. Where would the fun in that be?

[Sin-ster]

Sin-Ster, GM's run roughly .75-.90 seconds to draw to the first target in practice, focusing solely on that skill.

You won't often see a sub-second draw at a match, because no one shoots a match at break-neck practice speeds, and stage designers seldom give us a wide-open 5-7yd target, without running or twisting into some slightly off-balance position first. Where would the fun in that be?

Indeed, that's what I figured when I asked this and what I've discovered since then.

On a side note, at a Steel Challenge type of venue, .8 is very much doable (consistently) for even a M class Production shooter, although the target was obviously a bit further but the "ideal hit zone" was larger. (10" plate, IIRC.) And yes, he was running his full Production gun and rig, as we thought it would be a USPSA match but the weather had other plans.