Blcksmk Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 I am starting to gain some interest in 3-Gun and since my local club has started to offer some matches I have decided to build my AR-15 in a 3-Gun rifle. Do you guys reload your .223 for your 3-Gun rifles? My local range isn't big to have any long shots but will factory ammo such as Wolf steel case work the comp? Blcksmk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cardiackid Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 If it's close range stuff you don't need to worry about accurate ammo - as long as it's within spec you'll be fine. If Wolf cycles all right in your weapon go for it - just don't forget to clean things regularly as the coating can build up in chambers during heavy, rapid firing and cause cases to stick and not properly eject. I reload for 3-gun myself - you're almost always guaranteed to pick up free range brass after a match, which leaves you only bullets, primers and powder. Bulk Hornady and Winchester bullets are pretty cheap and I've been able to reload .223/5.56 brass many times as long as I don't run hot loads. If you're doing it on a single stage it takes a while compared to pistol (mainly case prep) but it's all a personal time vs. cost issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blcksmk Posted May 28, 2011 Author Share Posted May 28, 2011 If it's close range stuff you don't need to worry about accurate ammo - as long as it's within spec you'll be fine. If Wolf cycles all right in your weapon go for it - just don't forget to clean things regularly as the coating can build up in chambers during heavy, rapid firing and cause cases to stick and not properly eject. I reload for 3-gun myself - you're almost always guaranteed to pick up free range brass after a match, which leaves you only bullets, primers and powder. Bulk Hornady and Winchester bullets are pretty cheap and I've been able to reload .223/5.56 brass many times as long as I don't run hot loads. If you're doing it on a single stage it takes a while compared to pistol (mainly case prep) but it's all a personal time vs. cost issue. Well I reload all my pistol and rifle on a single stage press. I usually spend a good 2 hours a night reloading and case prepping. I enjoy every minute of it as well. Thats good to know for the reloading for short range stuff. I guess another question that comes to mind is even if I do choose to reload, what is the best powder to use for the comp? Kinda like Auto-Comp is the best powder for open pistols is there a preference for rifles? Blcksmk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EkuJustice Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 Just use the cheap stuff here as we do not have long range rifle here. For me just not worth the cost to get setup for what little rifle I would load Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blcksmk Posted May 29, 2011 Author Share Posted May 29, 2011 Just use the cheap stuff here as we do not have long range rifle here. For me just not worth the cost to get setup for what little rifle I would load I'm in the same boat. Not a place to shoot that far with rifle so I thought cheap ammo would suffice. I just wanna make sure that there aren't any specific loads or powders that may work the gun or comp better in terms of flatness and recoil. If there is I would practice with the cheap stuff and reload however much I need for the match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DyNo! Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 (edited) Loading .223 effectively in volume requires serious equipment. If you don't have enough to buy a Giraud/Gacey, don't even think about it unless you're loading small lots. My routine is pretty close to this one: Edited May 29, 2011 by DyNo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cardiackid Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 Well I reload all my pistol and rifle on a single stage press. I usually spend a good 2 hours a night reloading and case prepping. I enjoy every minute of it as well. Blcksmk I did this while I was still single and was able to load more than enough to shoot a match and still have two hundred or more for practice each month. The case prep is really the lengthy part but once I got a good system of batch prepping down I didn't think it was that bad. I just purchased a Dillon 550 but still do my brass prep (decap, resize, trim/chamfer/deburr separately - the RCBS 3-way cutter is a dream for manual case prep if you happen to have a Trim Pro trimmer). Sure you're still hand turning each round, but trimming, chamfering and deburring all in one step saves a lot of time. It's well worth the $50 investment if you're not doing insane amounts of brass that would lean you toward a giraud/gracey or dillon 1200. Once I get a couple hundred cases prepped it's a breeze powdering, seating and crimping on the dillon when compared to the old single stage though. Regarding the ammo - don't get fooled by or caught up in all of the reloading wizardry floating around on a lot of loading sites. There's wayyy too much benchrest style brass prep that has crept into common reloading communities. The way I prep precision bolt-action .308 rounds is much, much different than the way I do it for my 3-gun .223 rounds. When loading .223 and comparing it to pistol loading, the only steps I add are swaging primer pockets (if necessary), trimming, chamfering and deburring. Think about it this way - if you can still get groups that are 3-4" at 100yds it's plenty accurate enough for IDPA targets at distances that are usually much closer than that. It sounds like your local matches are at about the same distances as mine. The extra prep time spent trying to get ammo capable of holding MOA or sub-MOA for such short distances is entirely wasted. If you start to get out to the 300+ range you'll probably want to look at a couple of other steps to get things more consistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blcksmk Posted May 29, 2011 Author Share Posted May 29, 2011 Loading .223 effectively in volume requires serious equipment. If you don't have enough to buy a Giraud/Gacey, don't even think about it unless you're loading small lots. My routine is pretty close to this one: Good Lord that is a hell of setup! Yeah I might need to wait a while before I start to try and mass reload .223 ammo.... This guys setup has me thinking of building a bigger bench just for .223. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowrider Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 The Dillon 1200 is much faster if you use a decapping die in station 1. I can decap, size and trim a thousand in an hour with the Dillon 1200 setup on my 650. It's stupid fast... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiggerJJ Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 (edited) The Dillon 1200 is much faster if you use a decapping die in station 1. I can decap, size and trim a thousand in an hour with the Dillon 1200 setup on my 650. It's stupid fast... + 1 ! WAY faster than the "pencil sharpener" trimmers, and you don't have to handle each case! jj Edited May 29, 2011 by RiggerJJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cardiackid Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 Well since we're on this route I'd say what the hell - just get a 1050. It's 1050 times faster than a single stage! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mizer67 Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 (edited) When I was single, I'd do 400-500 .223 a month (year round) wtih a single stage and a hand trimmer. A little over 100-125/wk was all I could keep up with. Not exactly high volume but still a decent amount. You don't need high end equipment if your willing to put in the time. It will take lots of time. To the OPs question though, I'd say reloading is worth it if you're willing to put in the effort. I like knowing my score is due to my own ability or lack thereof. Even reloading Hornady or Montana Gold 55 FMJ (not match rounds) and shooting them vs. Wolf steel case will pick me up 2" at 100 yards, since Wolf is a 4 MOA round through my guns. If your aim is good, you won't need that extra 2". I'm not that good so I prefer knowing I have a little extra saftey margin in my ammo/gun combination to still get good hits if my hold isn't perfect. Edited May 30, 2011 by mizer67 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DyNo! Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 Good Lord that is a hell of setup! Yeah I might need to wait a while before I start to try and mass reload .223 ammo.... This guys setup has me thinking of building a bigger bench just for .223. To be fair, here are my differences which save a few hundred dollars: 1. I don't measure my concentricity (nor do I have the desire or means to) 2. I lubricate cases by piling them flat onto a single layer in a pan and spraying them except - I don't need to have them all facing up so I just dump them in flat without case bricks. 3. His idea of using his casefeeder to fill his plastic bricks is a good one, I fill mine by hand but only to see if I need to swage them (and only a small amount require swaging anyway). 4. I use a case gauge to determine headspace but it looks like that Hornady caliper setup is more accurate, I'll be getting one eventually. Other than that it's pretty much the same. The most important thing is a Giraud or Gacey trimmer and a progressive press. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgary Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 3. His idea of using his casefeeder to fill his plastic bricks is a good one, I fill mine by hand but only to see if I need to swage them (and only a small amount require swaging anyway). I' ve wrestled with whether or not I can reliably tell - by sight - whether or not a case needs to be swaged. Yeah, some are obvious, but my general practice is to keep known-swaged cases separate from "range brass", and swage whole batches of range brass. Any secret hints about how to more-reliably tell if a case needs swaging? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DyNo! Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 (edited) 3. His idea of using his casefeeder to fill his plastic bricks is a good one, I fill mine by hand but only to see if I need to swage them (and only a small amount require swaging anyway). I' ve wrestled with whether or not I can reliably tell - by sight - whether or not a case needs to be swaged. Yeah, some are obvious, but my general practice is to keep known-swaged cases separate from "range brass", and swage whole batches of range brass. Any secret hints about how to more-reliably tell if a case needs swaging? For civilian brass, I learn which headstamps seem to be too tight without swaging. With military brass, if there isn't a slight angle, taper, or round; it gets swaged. Occasionally I'm wrong and about 1/200 will get crunched and recycled. After I've swaged the brass though; I keep it separate from the brass that doesn't need swaging during the reloading process and I do not mix them until I've inspected them. A strong flashlight helps. Edited May 30, 2011 by DyNo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blurryvisions Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 ohh its defanitly worth it, 1/2 the price, may take a little more time but what else are u gonna do... haha brass prep sucks but i do a bunch and then i dont have to do it for a few months good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankge Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 I can also load down for my kid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushmeat Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 I am starting to gain some interest in 3-Gun and since my local club has started to offer some matches I have decided to build my AR-15 in a 3-Gun rifle. Do you guys reload your .223 for your 3-Gun rifles? My local range isn't big to have any long shots but will factory ammo such as Wolf steel case work the comp? Blcksmk Find Wolf to be a bit underpowered but yes, there will be more than enough gas to "work" the comp. As mentioned before, extraction can be sticky and the bolt may not hold open after the last round. However, I found Wolf and Tula to be acceptably accurate to 200 yards. I was getting 1.5-2 MOA. As for price, you can get bulk Russian ammo for around 20 cents/round, while 55gr bullets will run to 13 cents a piece. So, if you factor in your powder and primers, the price of your reloader and your time, you might decide Russ ammo is the way to go. And, you can always buy some Black Hills Blue Box 69s in case you travel to a match with longer ranges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rub'n Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Wow, I only got half way thru the video and got tired watching......just think how worn out I'd be if I was load'n.... Nice video....nice equipment! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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