Nother RO Question

[Avezorak]

I didnt want to hijack CHA-LEE's thread so Ill ask this one here.

Say any production or L10 shooter inserts their 11 round start mag on a standard loaded start COF and then they forget to rack the slide or short stroke the slide. So they have more than 10 rounds in their mag after the start signal.

Automatic bump to open?

[Skydiver]

Technically, yes, but it'll take an RO (or assisting RO) who is counting rounds and/or picking up and looking at magazines to notice that there was 11 rounds in the mag rather than just 10 after the start signal.

[Dan Hefta]

That's a good one... I choose to stay out of this one.

[ima45dv8]

I'm gonna slide this one over to the Rules forum.

[whitedog]

Wow, I have no idea how to handle that. The exact wording of the rules say bye bye, welcome to open. Black and white? Hello open.

[GrumpyOne]

Wow. Talk about a conumdrum! By the rules, he's in open....

[JAFO]

I think this is one of those situations where there's a loophole in what the rule strictly says and what it was intended for. The shooter was obviously not trying to cheat, and they are already getting penalized by the extra time taken to realize and rectify the problem. Since it was a loaded start, he would have had 11 rounds available to him if had he properly loaded the gun, so I don't really see that the shooter gained any advantage.

On the other hand, I do realize the rules say nothing about competitive advantage when it comes to round limits, and 11 is more than 10. I've seen this happen to a SS shooter, and because he used a barney mag for his 9th round, he still only had 8 in the mag that was loaded in the gun at the start.

I guess this is just one more reason to load everything to 10 and barney off your last mag. I've been using an 11-rd start mag for so long, I just know I'm going to end up forgetting to reload that last mag.

[whitedog]

So, if a rule is broken by accident, we don't enforce it? Sucks, but hello open. Advantage or not.

[Corey]

Open

[Sarge]

The shooter was obviously not trying to cheat,

Neither was I when I loaded my mags without my reading glasses last year.

I got bumped and rightly so. It was a mistake but so is forgetting to rack the slide.

It's just part of playing any game with rules. They are meant to be followed.

[ima45dv8]

Mr. Singlestack can tell you what you want to know about this.

Seated, empty-gun start, shooting Production. He kept his 11-round mag all the way around in the last mag pouch where for most stages he would just insert it, cycle the slide to load the chamber and then wait for "Standby". This time as he was running all out to the first array, smooth as wet glass he reached all the way around to the center of his back and pulled that 11-round mag, inserted it, cycled the slide and started a blastin.

When he finished and the range was clear, he said, "How was my time?"

I replied, "For an Open shooter, it sucked!"

Once it sank in, he took it like an adult, laughed and shot the rest of the match in Open.

Stuff happens.

[Avezorak]

This is one of those things that just plain sucks. You guys are right on though. Its right there in the rulebook in black and white. Its fun when your buddy does something like that though. Lol

[Singlestack]

When he finished and the range was clear, he said, "How was my time?"

I replied, "For an Open shooter, it sucked!"

That's not how I remember the ending...

I remember you acting all weird and dancing around trying to get a better look at my G17, to the point of bending over as I was holstering it and inspecting it closely. When I asked you "WTF are you doing?" You started and told me how you are always soooo amazed by those fancy Open Blasters. When I said "huh? " you took GREAT delight in telling me that I shot 10 rounds and my slide didn't lock back and I didn't have to rack a round in.

[ima45dv8]

When he finished and the range was clear, he said, "How was my time?"

I replied, "For an Open shooter, it sucked!"

That's not how I remember the ending...

I remember you acting all weird and dancing around trying to get a better look at my G17, to the point of bending over as I was holstering it and inspecting it closely. When I asked you "WTF are you doing?" You started and told me how you are always soooo amazed by those fancy Open Blasters. When I said "huh? " you took GREAT delight in telling me that I shot 10 rounds and my slide didn't lock back and I didn't have to rack a round in.

I'm not the least bit surprised by your faulty recollection. I'm sure you've been trying to erase the entire sad event from your memory.

I didn't have to dance around and check out your pitiful looking "G17 Open Division Wunder-Blaster". I knew after the first reload you had just changed divisions.

And yes I did take great delight, but only after telling you that you sucked as an Open shooter!

:roflol:

[JAFO]

So, if a rule is broken by accident, we don't enforce it? Sucks, but hello open. Advantage or not.

I didn't say that. I was simply stating my opinion that I don't think the rule is there for this particular incident, but I also stated that there's no flexibility in the round limits and that 11 is more than 10. I agree with you that it sucks but 'dems 'da rules.

[Singlestack]

When he finished and the range was clear, he said, "How was my time?"

I replied, "For an Open shooter, it sucked!"

:Lil:

That's not how I remember the ending...

I remember you acting all weird and dancing around trying to get a better look at my G17, to the point of bending over as I was holstering it and inspecting it closely. When I asked you "WTF are you doing?" You started and told me how you are always soooo amazed by those fancy Open Blasters. When I said "huh? " you took GREAT delight in telling me that I shot 10 rounds and my slide didn't lock back and I didn't have to rack a round in.

I'm not the least bit surprised by your faulty recollection. I'm sure you've been trying to erase the entire sad event from your memory.

I didn't have to dance around and check out your pitiful looking "G17 Open Division Wunder-Blaster". I knew after the first reload you had just changed divisions.

And yes I did take great delight, but only after telling you that you sucked as an Open shooter!

:roflol:

pffft... I remember it like it was yesterday. You were making exaggerated motions to solicit a response from me. As the situation was sinking in, that's when you hit me with "and your time sucked for Open".

[Dan Hefta]

Honestly, if that ever happened while I am ROing? I probably wouldn't even catch it, I am way too focused on safety and the gun to count shots... after all I am only human.

[ima45dv8]

Honestly, if that ever happened while I am ROing? I probably wouldn't even catch it, I am way too focused on safety and the gun to count shots... after all I am only human.

It wasn't too hard.

On his first array he fired 10 rounds. After he reloaded and was bringing the gun up on the next target without racking the slide, I was thinking, "If it goes click, he's OK. If it goes bang, he's in Open."

BANG!

[Nik Habicht]

Honestly, if that ever happened while I am ROing? I probably wouldn't even catch it, I am way too focused on safety and the gun to count shots... after all I am only human.

It wasn't too hard.

On his first array he fired 10 rounds. After he reloaded and was bringing the gun up on the next target without racking the slide, I was thinking, "If it goes click, he's OK. If it goes bang, he's in Open."

BANG!

I had one of those scares at Nats in Barry, one year. I owned one or two ten round mags at the mag, that I could get 11 in, if I wasn't careful. Unloaded gun start, I fire ten rounds and the slide doesn't lock back. I reload, take a deep breath, pull the trigger --- and was never happier to hear a click.....