how to avoid a mouthful of dirt?

[jaredr]

have only recently put a comp on my rifle and discovered what happens when shooting rollover prone (i.e. laying gun down on it's side). working a vtac barricade and got to bottom 3 ports - bummer. Now that I know what to expect, it's manageable but the huge cloud of debris that gets kicked up definitely obscures your vision (and since it had recently rained, it also threw up a lot of wet dirt that stuck to my eyepro). Any suggestions on how best minimize this effect when you have to lay the gun down on it's side? Aside from just holding it up as far as possible off of the ground, I couldn't come up with any bright ideas.

[MarkCO]

have only recently put a comp on my rifle and discovered what happens when shooting rollover prone (i.e. laying gun down on it's side). working a vtac barricade and got to bottom 3 ports - bummer. Now that I know what to expect, it's manageable but the huge cloud of debris that gets kicked up definitely obscures your vision (and since it had recently rained, it also threw up a lot of wet dirt that stuck to my eyepro). Any suggestions on how best minimize this effect when you have to lay the gun down on it's side? Aside from just holding it up as far as possible off of the ground, I couldn't come up with any bright ideas.

I've gone to a comp that takes out a tad less recoil but is still very flat, and keep the rifle as angled as possible when near the ground. I just barely get the comp through any port leaving me on the other side. All little things that help a little bit each.

[DyNo!]

Recoil reduction comes at a price.

Less aggressive compensators blow less debris.

The Spike's Dynacomp was designed to have less muzzle blast while minimizing recoil. It minimizes it to an acceptable amount for multi-gun.

The only thing that ends up kicking up dust on this rifle is the shell casings hitting the ground.

Edited May 9, 2011 by DyNo!

[fastmtnbiker33w]

I set up my V-tac barrier for 2 stages in my local multi-gun match. It was really hard to the the IDPA guys to stick their barrel through the ports. If they stuck it all the way through to the end of their handguard, the dust isn't too bad. I also put a carpet down after practicing in the dirt many times. It helps a lot. Also keeps people from bitching too much about using the barrier in a match.

[jaredr]

thx all for replies. appreciate the suggestions, tho you all missed a good gaslighting oppty ("what do you mean your comp is kicking up dirt, what are you doing? did you put that thing on yourself...)

sounds like best approach is a combination of the little things as MarkCO put it - keep the barrel angled as much as possible, maybe keeping it as far off the ground as you can and still support it in a stable way, keep the comp on one side of the barrier and yourself (as far back) on the other, etc.

Dyno - interesting looking comp from Spike's tactical, looks to me a bit like the battlecomp (I have not tried that, but there is an 8,462 page thread over at one of the other "tactical" forums about how cool it is...). Would be interested in trying it out, but expect that I'll probably be too lazy (and cheap) to buy one and try it side by side against something else, so I'll just see if I can get by with the somewhat blastier brake I've already got installed.

[SinistralRifleman]

It'd be nice if we more regularly had stages that showed the practical limitations of the equipment we use. The general lack of stages that show the disadvantages of comps, demonstrates yet again that equipment now drives stage design rather than stage design driving equipment. The important thing to learn here is, "is a comp something I really want on my rifle if I'm using it for anything other than matches?" or "what level of muzzle blast is acceptable to reduce muzzle climb at what other cost?"

Sticking the muzzle past the barricade helps some. If you find yourself shooting competitions with awkward positions low to the ground regularly, you might decide a comp just isn't worth it.

[jaredr]

The important thing to learn here is, "is a comp something I really want on my rifle if I'm using it for anything other than matches?" or "what level of muzzle blast is acceptable to reduce muzzle climb at what other cost?"

Sticking the muzzle past the barricade helps some. If you find yourself shooting competitions with awkward positions low to the ground regularly, you might decide a comp just isn't worth it.

really well put.

I found that my old beater carbine (no cool free-float handguard, regular A2 birdcage flashhider) generally wasn't as fast as my comped rifle (or rather I was not as fast shot to shot when using my older rifle) on most open shots BUT when shooting rolled over on the ground, the old-skool A2 flashhider was certainly much easier to shoot and splits with it were much faster. I can get the timer back out and start running some different drills using each rifle, but I'm pretty sure what they'll tell me is that my comped gun is:

1) best shot outdoors, with lots of ear-pro

2) faster/easier to shoot in any position where the muzzle is not resting on (or very close to) any other surface, especially one like dirt or gravel which can be kicked up and blown around

3) not a lot of fun if conditions 1 & 2 have not been met

paraphrasing your question - are the advantages of the comp worth its drawbacks - is a big pain in the behind, and one I cannot answer easily. I love having 5.56 rifle that handles more or less like a .22 rimfire (blastier to be sure, but once i get past the noise and in some positions the gas blowback, splits with the comp rifle are not far off my times with a 10/22). On the other hand, I'll post a picture of what one of the lower horizontal ports on my barricade looks like after I ended up resting the comp on the barricade edge sideways as I was canted over getting a sight picture. Light mounted on side of the handguard prevents me from getting too much of the barrel beyond the barricade window - never a problem with an A2, but (as I discovered) the comp is a different animal. No permanent damage (to me) but sure surprised me when I pulled the trigger and the wood splintered and blew off a fair size chunk which bounced off of my forward hand. Was thinking to myself "I knew I had the barrel clear of the barricade, what's the heck just happened." Moral of the story (for me) is that you have to treat the end of the muzzle like anti-matter and make sure you're not touching anything with it when you're firing. Correlary to that is that any awkward positions you might have safely gotten away with using a regular flashhider may need to be (very) carefully re-evaluated.

I think i'll stick with what the brake I've got right now and spend some time doing some more position shooting and course drills at half speed to see where this thing helps and where it hurts. Others like yourself have also suggested that it may be worth compromising and using a less effective comp to mitigate some of the comp's nastier side effects. May go that route, but will try and wring out what I have for a bit and see where it really fails and where it's just tolerably unpleasant.

thanks all for comments and feedback.

[Charles Bond]

In at least two of the three years I have shot Blue Ridge we have had to shoot under a car or a low wagon. My comp threw sand one year and mud this year that affected the optic. The shooting space was too cramped to position the weapon so as to preclude this.

About the only practical suggestion would be to have a screw off comp which may or may not be legal at your match. Doing so would of course be a compromise but if your comp is timed or attached via split or lock washers it could be done. For my money, I am going to leave my highly effective comp attached and just deal with it when I need to as I believe the overall benefit derived trumps the disadvantages you note.

Personally I am more bothered by having to shoot in a barrel then I am in a ground shooting situation. While I can try to keep the muzzle out of the barrel, sometimes you just have to live with that as well.

[kellyn]

It'd be nice if we more regularly had stages that showed the practical limitations of the equipment we use. The general lack of stages that show the disadvantages of comps, demonstrates yet again that equipment now drives stage design rather than stage design driving equipment. The important thing to learn here is, "is a comp something I really want on my rifle if I'm using it for anything other than matches?" or "what level of muzzle blast is acceptable to reduce muzzle climb at what other cost?"

Sticking the muzzle past the barricade helps some. If you find yourself shooting competitions with awkward positions low to the ground regularly, you might decide a comp just isn't worth it.

Great post but as a practical matter, I just don't think you can really design a match where a comp will ever be at a disadvantage. Rollover prone on every stage? For every shot? I like the fact that we are seeing more and more of these kind of shooting problems at matches (and even major matches) but at the end of most shots will be taken with the rifle being held vertically in either the standing or prone positions or off a prop and comps will always give you a little edge.

I think a comp is even worth it at the ACTS matches and any other of the more tactical matches that I've shot in.

And always remember Bennie won a Nationals with no comp.

[kurtm]

"How to avoid a mouth full of dirt?"

Well....uhhh....keep your mouth closed...shooting Irons also helps a bunch!!

[Fullauto_Shooter]

"How to avoid a mouth full of dirt?"

Well....uhhh....keep your mouth closed...shooting Irons also helps a bunch!!

I've also heard that painting steel targets after every shooter also keeps the dirt out of your mouth.

[SinistralRifleman]

Great post but as a practical matter, I just don't think you can really design a match where a comp will ever be at a disadvantage. Rollover prone on every stage? For every shot? I like the fact that we are seeing more and more of these kind of shooting problems at matches (and even major matches) but at the end of most shots will be taken with the rifle being held vertically in either the standing or prone positions or off a prop and comps will always give you a little edge.

I think a comp is even worth it at the ACTS matches and any other of the more tactical matches that I've shot in.

And always remember Bennie won a Nationals with no comp.

I don't think it needs to be every stage, but presenting problems (such as roll over prone) where its an inconvenience or annoyance would be worthwhile in doing on a regular basis. I definitely shoot slower without one, but it is nicer even shooting regular prone on a sandy range not kicking up as much dirt.

[bushmeat]

I don't mind the mouthful of dirt, just hate the gravel blowing back into the ejection port and ejected brass trying to bounce back in. I've taken to shooting on my weak side to avoid this and found that if I can get a little bit more cant, the debris blows more outwards.

[Corey]

"How to avoid a mouth full of dirt?"

Well....uhhh....keep your mouth closed...shooting Irons also helps a bunch!!

Beat me to it

well, all except that silly iron sight idea