Sarge Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 Yesterday I finally came to the conclusion that I will no longer tolerate shooters who don't help the rest of us during a match. I am going to make it a point from now on when squadded with shooters I don't know to make an announcement to the squad before we put rounds down range. Basically something like this. "I want to remind everybody that shooting a match is a team effort. Everybody is expected to do their part in pasting targets, resetting and pasting steel, as well as staying around after we finish to tear down the stage we finish on. I also want you to understand that picking up brass is fine during the match as long as all other jobs are being done first. Also you should only be picking up the amount of brass you expect to put down on a given stage. If you want to pick up free brass other than that you need to stay after the match is tore down and pick it up then. Don't be on the stage picking up brass when the rest of us are trying to do walk throughs. Also, while picking up brass, don't make the RO tell you to clear the range so he can run the next shooter. Remember, you are here to shoot a match not stock up on components. After we have finished our last stage and we have the go ahead to tear it down everybody should be helping. If you can't stay for some reason you should make that known to the squad. Sometimes we all have to shoot and scoot but leaving early should be considered the exception and not the norm. Coming to the range early to help with set up is great but it is still not acceptable for you to leave tear down to just a few people. Helping with set up is helping the MD and the match as a whole. Helping with tear down is part of shooting on a squad." Or words to that effect. I swear to god the next time I am carrying target stands or poppers or wall sections to the shed and two guys who were on the squad are sitting in their truck smoking and joking and literally watching us work sparks are going to fly. I hope they leave and say they never want to squad with me again. Trust me the feeling will be mutual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Springer Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 Tell me about it. We had a 3gun shoot last week and the first 2 shooters in our squad left right after they finished the last stage. Didn't even wait for the the other 4 guys to finish, just left. Didn't help set up/ tear down. Didn't help paste. Hell, one of the other shooters girlfriends did more work and she wasn't even shooting. They didn't do SQUAT to help and then had the audacity to call our club prez and complain about a call that was made at the match. Our Prez let him have it and hopefully they won't be back. We're a very young club and we need all the shooters we can get but we don't need their kind. They actually had the balls at one point to complain about how long the match was taking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Keen Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 + 1 Basic common sense, doesn't seem to be so common any more. What's the Golden Rule? Treat others, how you would like to be treated. You wouldn't want somebody picking up brass (in your way) while you are the on deck shooter, walking a stage, trying to get your plan memorized. So don't do it to others. I spend a reasonable amount of time looking for my brass too, but I try to be aware of whether or not the stage is clear & ready to start the next competitor. I always try to be off the stage by that time, so I do not hold the next person up, or the slow the whole squad down for that matter. Be courteous to others. They are here to shoot the match, just like you, and would like to have the same amount of time to look over the stage, not to mention they might have somewhere to be after the match as well. So the sooner you all get done, and torn down, the sooner EVERYONE can go home. Then if you want to look for brass, or smoke cigarettes, have at it. It's a VOLUNTEER sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flack jacket Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 (edited) I hear ya, the Range master at our club states to the crowd, "Tape is free and included with match fee!" Otherwise, suspected shooters may not hear their name on "up" list if not helping.... Raw, yet effective. Don't wait till match is done, address it as it happens. Edited May 8, 2011 by flack jacket Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdm74 Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 Where I shoot there is no brass picking till match is over. That's all announced at beginning of match on top of everyone is expected to help or don't bother coming to the next match. Nothing worse then two guys doing all the work while everyone chit-chats, really slows down the match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitedog Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 I agree. And Kevin I hope you do this. If we all do a little, then no one does a lot. Grand father taught me that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 You can probably remain a nice guy and get that message out there. It is one we just need to be consistent in communicating. (It is easy to let that slip from time to time.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubber Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 Sometimes I will single out the guy doing all the work. A simple statement like "that's ok guys, Bill has got it all handled." then sometimes you have to just give some guys some tape. At times I do drift off into La La Land and have to remind myself I need to be doing something. We had 84 shooters in OKC this past weekend, Perry and I RO'd our squad and a couple of guys also took turns Score keeping and all of the crew helped out most of the time and most of the guys helped all the time. Later rdd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadeslade Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 OK. But don't be sure you won't get something back like, "I've been doing this for years and this club wouldn't be here if I hadn't helped carry it along, I just had surgery, so buzz off". I just contribute the work I can do, which lately means being very patient with new shooters and scoring and RO most of the time because a lot of club hasn't mastered the Palm. Sometimes you can push too hard. I've done it myself. DVC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 In the "OLD DAYS" we used to call out an order. Shooter, On Deck, In the Hole, Tape, Tape, Steel, Steel, Brass, Brass, RO and RO. Almost all positions rotate through as you shoot. RO and RO depended upon match size, did we have dedicated ROs or embedded. We all go all our brass back and the ranges stayed clean. Targets all got taped, steel got set, everyone had time to reset their gear and everyone did most every job (RO of course being delegated to the qualified) It worked. Then we all got rich, we stopped picking up brass and about the same time we stopped calling out the order other than the next shooters. Things went downhill. We are starting to reverse the trend again. One thing is that the ranges are asking that we police the brass. We find that with two tapers, one on steel and two picking brass the flow works and we don't fall behind. Add more tapers and steel setters as needed for larger or more complex stages. As for build and teardown. We ask everyone to stay, most do at least for the initial teardown. if your equipment is organized, it takes less time and more people will give a half an hour than will give an hour and a half. You are 100% correct that the Match takes teamwork even though the sport itself is an individual endeavor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted May 9, 2011 Author Share Posted May 9, 2011 "I've been doing this for years and this club wouldn't be here if I hadn't helped carry it along, Sorry, no excuse! The clubs I shoot at are full of those guys and they work harder than I do at the matches. I just had surgery, In regards to tear down I would say, no problem thanks for letting us all know. Pasting targets though, I would have to say if you can shoot the match you can probably paste targets. So buzz off". Why would somebody say that instead of "Hey Man I just had surgery I might not be able to keep up but I'll do the best I can" I just contribute the work I can do, which lately means being very patient with new shooters and scoring and RO most of the time because a lot of club hasn't mastered the Palm. Sounds like you are contributing more than your fair share of help. Sometimes you can push too hard. I've done it myself. DVC Generally speaking it is not pushing hard it is educating newer shooters and those guys who come out a few times a year to have a little fun. The regulars, for the most part, know what is expected, how to make the squad move along, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Smith Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 There are a few people I shoot with that pickup brass (mostly .45 and .38 Super) after they shoot, and that's OK because the rest of the time they are taping and resetting. And some people go around after tear down and pickup brass, usually only at the stage they finish on, and that's OK too. But I did shoot a match a once where some people spent time picking up brass on every stage and after the last stage, were picking up brass while myself and a couple others were tearing down. I'm not sure, but I got the feeling that they were not just picking up brass for themselves but for others in other squads as well - it just seemed to be their standard practice - get the brass before it got trampled. Local customs are different at different ranges. Overall, however, I do find that it would be nice for everyone other than the current shooter and on-deck person to get out there and reset the stage and Hoover up the brass (if appropriate). And by nice I mean that people should think of it as an obligation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray_Z Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 This has been a problem for a long time. I've gone so far as to pick out the one or two shooters that are always in the squad that never hold their end up by name and ask for their help. One shooter in particular came right our and stated that he wasn't going to paste or shag brass. When it was his turn to shoot his targets weren't pasted and the steel wasn't reset. He had to do it himself before he could shoot. And you can guess where his brass was when he was done. I didn't have to say a thing, I didn't have to say a thing. I didn't have to look like a jerk. The problem was solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Springer Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 This has been a problem for a long time. I've gone so far as to pick out the one or two shooters that are always in the squad that never hold their end up by name and ask for their help. One shooter in particular came right our and stated that he wasn't going to paste or shag brass. When it was his turn to shoot his targets weren't pasted and the steel wasn't reset. He had to do it himself before he could shoot. And you can guess where his brass was when he was done. I didn't have to say a thing, I didn't have to say a thing. I didn't have to look like a jerk. The problem was solved. That's the kinda guy, IMO, this sport doesn't need. As for the guy that has been doing this for years and the club suffering without him. PFFFT. Our club prez/founder is in his 60s has put over $4k into our club to get it started and you have to YELL at him to stop pushing so hard. He is physically DESTROYED after the 2 days of setup, shoot and teardown and he wouldn't have it any other way. This "my time is more valuable than yours" mentality some people have just blows my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiG Lady Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 Even though the following may not directly apply to shooting, as such, it DOES apply to lending one's time to a cause or to the betterment of the group activity in question: This is a collection of sayings that I compiled a year ago... ------------------------------------- THOUGHTS ON VOLUNTEERISM Those who can, do. Those who can do more, volunteer. ~Author Unknown Volunteers do not necessarily have the time; they just have the heart. ~Elizabeth Andrew Volunteers don't get paid, not because they're worthless, but because they're priceless. ~Sherry Anderson God and angels don't get paid even though theirs is some of the most important work around. Ditto for volunteers. ~Cherishe Archer Volunteers are love in motion! ~Author Unknown The smallest act of kindness is worth more than the grandest intention. ~Oscar Wilde Act as if what you do makes a difference. It does. ~William James We make a living by what we get, but we make a life by what we give. ~Winston Churchill Wherever there is a human being, there is an opportunity for a kindness. ~Seneca Volunteering is the ultimate exercise in democracy. You vote in elections once a year, but when you volunteer, you vote every day about the kind of community you want to live in. ~Unknown Unless your department has a budget infinitely greater than most, you will not get rich being a volunteer director/coordinator, but your life will be indescribably enriched by the people you meet and work with. ~Martin Tichenor, Volunteer Director for a medium security prison in Missouri Volunteering is not a choice, it's a responsibility. ~Unknown ------------------------------ Ask not what your shooting match can do for you; ask what you can do for your shooting match. --SiG Lady Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 As me and a couple or the work-horses finished setting up the 4 field courses at a recent match...one of the work-horses noticed that a bunch of folks were standing around, I guess they missed out on the opportunity to lend a hand. We still had a quick classifier that needed setup. Said work-horse asked the first person he saw if they'd help setup it up. The answer he got was..."no thank you". I was rolling that around in my mind after he told me. Later...we noticed the person had an oxygen tube running from his range bag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiG Lady Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 Well, there ARE the occasional "excused" individuals... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reshoot Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 Yesterday I finally came to the conclusion that I will no longer tolerate shooters who don't help the rest of us during a match. I am going to make it a point from now on when squadded with shooters I don't know to make an announcement to the squad before we put rounds down range. Basically something like this. "I want to remind everybody that shooting a match is a team effort. Everybody is expected to do their part in pasting targets, resetting and pasting steel, as well as staying around after we finish to tear down the stage we finish on. I also want you to understand that picking up brass is fine during the match as long as all other jobs are being done first. Also you should only be picking up the amount of brass you expect to put down on a given stage. If you want to pick up free brass other than that you need to stay after the match is tore down and pick it up then. Don't be on the stage picking up brass when the rest of us are trying to do walk throughs. Also, while picking up brass, don't make the RO tell you to clear the range so he can run the next shooter. Remember, you are here to shoot a match not stock up on components. After we have finished our last stage and we have the go ahead to tear it down everybody should be helping. If you can't stay for some reason you should make that known to the squad. Sometimes we all have to shoot and scoot but leaving early should be considered the exception and not the norm. Coming to the range early to help with set up is great but it is still not acceptable for you to leave tear down to just a few people. Helping with set up is helping the MD and the match as a whole. Helping with tear down is part of shooting on a squad." Or words to that effect. I swear to god the next time I am carrying target stands or poppers or wall sections to the shed and two guys who were on the squad are sitting in their truck smoking and joking and literally watching us work sparks are going to fly. I hope they leave and say they never want to squad with me again. Trust me the feeling will be mutual. I know exactly where you are coming from, Kevin! After I shot one of Saturday's stages I walked up to the brass picker-upper and said; " I just shot so, that brass you have in your hands would be mine". I held out my hands and took the brass. It could have been his for all I know, and I hope it was! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reshoot Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 Yesterday I finally came to the conclusion that I will no longer tolerate shooters who don't help the rest of us during a match. I am going to make it a point from now on when squadded with shooters I don't know to make an announcement to the squad before we put rounds down range. Basically something like this. "I want to remind everybody that shooting a match is a team effort. Everybody is expected to do their part in pasting targets, resetting and pasting steel, as well as staying around after we finish to tear down the stage we finish on. I also want you to understand that picking up brass is fine during the match as long as all other jobs are being done first. Also you should only be picking up the amount of brass you expect to put down on a given stage. If you want to pick up free brass other than that you need to stay after the match is tore down and pick it up then. Don't be on the stage picking up brass when the rest of us are trying to do walk throughs. Also, while picking up brass, don't make the RO tell you to clear the range so he can run the next shooter. Remember, you are here to shoot a match not stock up on components. After we have finished our last stage and we have the go ahead to tear it down everybody should be helping. If you can't stay for some reason you should make that known to the squad. Sometimes we all have to shoot and scoot but leaving early should be considered the exception and not the norm. Coming to the range early to help with set up is great but it is still not acceptable for you to leave tear down to just a few people. Helping with set up is helping the MD and the match as a whole. Helping with tear down is part of shooting on a squad." Or words to that effect. I swear to god the next time I am carrying target stands or poppers or wall sections to the shed and two guys who were on the squad are sitting in their truck smoking and joking and literally watching us work sparks are going to fly. I hope they leave and say they never want to squad with me again. Trust me the feeling will be mutual. I know exactly where you are coming from, Kevin! After I shot one of Saturday's stages I walked up to the brass picker-upper and said; " I just shot so, that brass you have in your hands would be mine". I held out my hands and took the brass. It could have been his for all I know, and I hope it was! Please let me clarify, for those that were not there . . . dah. This "brass picker-upper" did nothing but that. Did not help reset the stages, okay? Oh, and I did not take brass from him. He gave it up. I am not a violent person . . . usually Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 The "brass picker-upper" may be a member here. Closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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