93civiccpe Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Hello everyone, I'm new here and my name is Shaun and I'm from Virginia. I've been shooting and hunting for a long time, although I haven't shot a competition since getting married several years ago. I've always wanted to get into open class shooting and have been very fortunate to have shooters locally who have let me try out their open guns. I have a Dillon 550b and have loaded both handgun and rifle ammunition. I am interested in shooting the 38 super comp round and working up my own loads for it. The main barrier preventing me from getting into open class shooting was the cost of a good open gun. I have money saved up and an interested in advice on what to get. At the same time, my wife and I are expecting our first child so I know the budget is going to get tight again soon. I definitely think picking up a used open gun to save money is a great idea. But I am curious as to what I should be looking for? What should I stay away from? What price ranges should I be expecting? What is the typical life of a 38 super comp barrel? I appreciate any advice you guys are willing to give. I have been reading through the forums and this site is a gold mine of information. I'm really glad to have found this community! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pro2AInPA Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Hello everyone, I'm new here and my name is Shaun and I'm from Virginia. I've been shooting and hunting for a long time, although I haven't shot a competition since getting married several years ago. I've always wanted to get into open class shooting and have been very fortunate to have shooters locally who have let me try out their open guns. I have a Dillon 550b and have loaded both handgun and rifle ammunition. I am interested in shooting the 38 super comp round and working up my own loads for it. The main barrier preventing me from getting into open class shooting was the cost of a good open gun. I have money saved up and an interested in advice on what to get. At the same time, my wife and I are expecting our first child so I know the budget is going to get tight again soon. I definitely think picking up a used open gun to save money is a great idea. But I am curious as to what I should be looking for? What should I stay away from? What price ranges should I be expecting? What is the typical life of a 38 super comp barrel? I appreciate any advice you guys are willing to give. I have been reading through the forums and this site is a gold mine of information. I'm really glad to have found this community! Hi Shaun. What is your price range? There are many great gunsmiths out there who would be happy to build you a great open gun. Many of them are in the dealer tent here on the forum. Have you given any thought to 9mm? You'll find at a lot of matches you'll be busy resetting steel, taping targets etc and will need to leave a lot of your brass lay. That's painful with .38SC brass, not so much with 9mm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blaster113 Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Welcome to the forum. So many different variables with Open... First, you should decide what platform you want to go with. STI/SVI, Caspian, Tanfoglio, Glock, etc. Then you have to decide on caliber. 9mm Major, .38SC or .38 Super. Many threads on this site regarding caliber and platforms. 9mm will be the cheapest to run due to the brass issue. STI/SVI guns are the most popular and have the most parts available. I then would try and find a pistol that doesnt have too much mileage on it. The more rounds on a gun, the more likelihood of problems I think. Pricewise, if you shop around you can get a decent gun at a good price. Expect a decent gun to start around $2000. Slide lightening is a plus but shouldnt be a deal breaker. The slide lightening will make the gun a little easier to shoot. As for barrel life, I think .38 Super barrels will go to about 75k rounds or even more, but I wouldnt want to buy a gun with that much mileage on it cause chances are something major will end up breaking or you'll have reliability issues. My first Open gun was a well used Caspian with a heavily lightened slide, many mags and spare parts. Cost me around $1400 if I recall. Check this forum regularly as well as Gunbroker.com. You can usually sell an Open gun for close to what you paid for it. I didnt lose hardly anything at all on that first Caspian when I sold it later. My experience with that first gun helped me figure out what I wanted in a new gun. Later had a custom STI based gun built with most of the parts I wanted. If you go custom later you can put it in top of the line parts for close to what you pay for a factory STI gun. Good luck and welcome to the dark side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Look for an STI TruBor in Super/Super comp. They will be the most economical of the supers. Or in 9mm, for that matter. Around $1,900 - $2,600 for a low mileage one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remington4Life Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 None Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pro2AInPA Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 None Wow . . . that's helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 None Wow . . . that's helpful. Ahhh, go easy on him...He's just trying to up his post count...... legally..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 The main barrier preventing me from getting into open class shooting was the cost of a good open gun. my wife and I are expecting our first child so I know the budget is going to get tight again soon. Don't forget that the cost of the gun is only a portion of the total cost of shooting - I spend more for travelling expenses to matches than for anything else. With a baby on the way, you might want to delay the entire project, unless your wife wants to join you on these weekly shoots?? I stopped shooting until my daughter was 12 years old - too busy to shoot. But, enjoying being back in it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caz41 Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 What are you shooting currently? If you are accustomed to one platform over another it may be easier to stay with that for an open gun. We all have a different view of what "on a budget" means when it comes to this sport but make sure that you do your homework. The cost of Super/Super Comp brass can be enough alone to sway you one way or another. Big matches that are "lost brass" matches can be painful on the wallet when you leave 200-300 on the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 If you're on, or expect to be on, a tight budget, Open Division (not Class) may not be a great choice. Aside from the gun cost, you're looking at probably $500 or so worth of magazines, then a race holster ($125-200 or so). Barrel life varies greatly, but 50K isn't unreasonable. Needless to say, like nearly everything else, this has been covered plenty of times...this wasn't even a search, just scrolled through the threads for "which gun" sort of topics: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=125377&view=findpost&p=1416202 http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=120983&view=findpost&p=1368267 http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=115865&view=findpost&p=1313776 http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=114905&view=findpost&p=1303594 http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=113926&view=findpost&p=1292655 http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=111878&view=findpost&p=1269871 http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=113072&view=findpost&p=1282798 http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=104149&view=findpost&p=1184999 http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=102324&view=findpost&p=1165357 http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=99241&view=findpost&p=1134345 http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=95796&view=findpost&p=1096187 http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=86201&view=findpost&p=992893 http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=89210&view=findpost&p=1024851 http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=84554&view=findpost&p=975703 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remington4Life Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 Im on a budget so I shoot production, I dont think there is a cheap way to shoot open. When I get everything set with my 3 guns I might start working on a limited gun, but i would rather spend my money on ammo. And I gotta get my post count up somehow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKSNIPER Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 Maybe try a used open gun. I'm buying one from a member here in .38 Supercomp looking forward to my first foray into the open class (Dark Side of the Force) and using the red dot sight instead of the irons. What I'm paying for the open guy is a lot cheaper than buying one thats brand new. I figure the $ I save I'll spend on the holster,pouches, belt, etc..... Gotta get my first Dillon too in order to keep feeding the beast. JK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 Maybe try a used open gun. I'm buying one from a member here in .38 Supercomp looking forward to my first foray into the open class (Dark Side of the Force) and using the red dot sight instead of the irons. What I'm paying for the open guy is a lot cheaper than buying one thats brand new. I figure the $ I save I'll spend on the holster,pouches, belt, etc..... Gotta get my first Dillon too in order to keep feeding the beast. JK You will probably find that moving to open at first will be a challenge....It's takes a bit to get used to finding the dot. Just do lots of draws, till you can find the dot quickly (I.E., till you find your dot index, so to speak). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 Im on a budget so I shoot production, I dont think there is a cheap way to shoot open. When I get everything set with my 3 guns I might start working on a limited gun, but i would rather spend my money on ammo. And I gotta get my post count up somehow. You'll get there! Omce you get set up for reloading (and you have all the gear!), open is no more expensive to shoot than production (caliber depending!). Bullets for open or production are gonna cost the same (actually, open bullets are generally cheaper, as you want a lighter bullet than for production), primers are the same, powder can go either way, and brass, well there is where the cost lie. Depending on whether you want to shoot 9, 38S, or 38SC, or 40 (or 357 SIG, or any other variable), your cost can vary greatly, but not as much as you would think. 9 brass can only be loaded to mj a few times before it has to be tossed, where as the super variants can go 10+, and even the 40. So, the initial cost of the super brass can get you, but if you get most of it back after a match, each time you load it, it gets cheaper. So, in the end, I believe it's a wash for the cost of brass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pro2AInPA Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 Maybe try a used open gun. I'm buying one from a member here in .38 Supercomp looking forward to my first foray into the open class (Dark Side of the Force) and using the red dot sight instead of the irons. What I'm paying for the open guy is a lot cheaper than buying one thats brand new. I figure the $ I save I'll spend on the holster,pouches, belt, etc..... Gotta get my first Dillon too in order to keep feeding the beast. JK You will probably find that moving to open at first will be a challenge....It's takes a bit to get used to finding the dot. Just do lots of draws, till you can find the dot quickly (I.E., till you find your dot index, so to speak). Using one of the 90 degree mounts is a HUGE help in making the transition as smooth as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 Maybe try a used open gun. I'm buying one from a member here in .38 Supercomp looking forward to my first foray into the open class (Dark Side of the Force) and using the red dot sight instead of the irons. What I'm paying for the open guy is a lot cheaper than buying one thats brand new. I figure the $ I save I'll spend on the holster,pouches, belt, etc..... Gotta get my first Dillon too in order to keep feeding the beast. JK You will probably find that moving to open at first will be a challenge....It's takes a bit to get used to finding the dot. Just do lots of draws, till you can find the dot quickly (I.E., till you find your dot index, so to speak). Using one of the 90 degree mounts is a HUGE help in making the transition as smooth as possible. I have yet to shoot an open gun with one of those, but I would surely like to! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
93civiccpe Posted April 6, 2011 Author Share Posted April 6, 2011 (edited) Hey Guys, Thank you for all of the information. You guys brought up a lot of things I hadn't considered, and have given me a lot to think about. I must say "SIG shooter", getting into a used open gun for $1400 must have been nice, but I am expecting it to be a good bit more than that. I enjoyed shooting the 38 supercomp round but you guys brought up some good reasons to consider 9mm major. Fortunately I have a 550b for reloading the ammo either way, but I guess I need to look into the cost of the brass and the longevity of it, especially with 9mm major loads being harder on the brass. As far as travelling costs, I was planning to stay in Virginia for now as we have monthly steel matches at several local ranges. I know with a newborn on the way my shooting time is going to get reduced greatly, but this is the one hobby I want to try to hold on to. The bits of free time I do get I will try to put towards shooting. I know there are a lot of members with children who are probably chuckling right now at the thought, and maybe I'll be learning the hard way. I do have another question which is definitely going to expose my lack of knowledge. I see that a good number of the European open shooters are using the Sig X-5 (or the new X-6) Single action only frames. There is a used X5 competition model that I could pick up locally that is single action only, has the ambi safety at the top rear of the grip like the 1911 has, and has a trigger pull weight of around 2 pounds. It also has a threaded barrel. I just have not seen anyone locally shooting one of these X5/X6 frame open guns in a match. I know that there are factory sig 9mm magazines which hold 20 rounds, and I have read that there are companies working on a 140 tube which would hold closer to 25/26 rounds for use in the European circuit. So my question is whether or not this would be a legal open gun? I know I can have the frame drilled and tapped with a cmore mount similar to what is used on the race 1911's. I am just curious whether this is worthwhile and I appreciate any suggestions/opinions/information regarding this. My main reason for being interested is that I have carried and shot a sig p228, p229, and p226 for many years, and I am very familiar with the grip and feel of sig handguns. But are parts going to be more expensive since less are using them and less companies are making the parts? Is there a disadvantage to having a threaded on compensator? Are there any good threaded on compensators? I'm sure there is a lot of things to consider so if anyone has any information one way or another, I definitely appreciate it. Edited April 6, 2011 by 93civiccpe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twodownzero Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 It would be legal, but 170mm magazines are allowed in open, and some shooters can get up to 32 rounds in them. I am not one of those guys who thinks that 1 or 2 more rounds will make you or break you in open or limited, but I really don't think any open gun would be competitive without holding at least 25, and better yet, 28 or so rounds. There are people in this sport who try to reinvent the wheel, and those people would likely encourage you to build whatever gun that you'll shoot. I would discourage this. Most of the equipment that works best is already popular for a reason. That's not to say that there isn't quite a range of what will work, but I've never seen a Sig in the Open Division if that tells you anything. Limited/L-10, yes. Open, no. I looked into getting an open gun, and you'd be amazed at the information that's available on this forum. Once you choose a platform, you'll realize that there's a lot to consider, including scope mounts, compensators, caliber, barrel length, popple holes or not, weight of the gun/slide, bull or bushing, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chendersby Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 The fact that you have never seen a sig open gun should tell you something. Stick with a 1911 base gun. There is a reason we all shoot them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dskinsler83 Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 I've heard great reviews on the sig x5 and I think ud be happy shooting it if u like sig! You shoot what ever u choose to shoot my friend! Open class is build it and run it! The sig would be a great choice if u can get it and mags for it for a good price. But finding mags would be hard...being a firstvtime shooter to open mag capasity should not bother you and if u r shooting local only go for it man. Sig is know for it's hell and back reliability Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKSNIPER Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 Thanks for the tip Grumpy....we used EOTECH sights on the Ar-15 and some of the MP-5s here when I was working....the first time we took them to the range one of the guys after shooting some rounds using the EOTECH turned around and said "It feels like I'm cheating!" "90 degree mounts" ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pro2AInPA Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 "90 degree mounts" ?? http://shootersconnectionstore.com/Cheely-Custom-C-More-Scope-Mount-Black-P1590.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKSNIPER Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Thanks Pro2inPA. JK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
93civiccpe Posted April 13, 2011 Author Share Posted April 13, 2011 (edited) Hey Guys, Thank you so much for all the advice and information. I've been reading along and keeping an eye on the classifieds looking for a good low-mileage used gun. I happened to come across a great deal locally on an older EAA Witness Gold Team custom pistol in 9x21. It already has a bunch of upgrades from Henning's site, and is ready to shoot now. I'm working up loads for it and am going to have it out competing soon. I got very lucky as the previous owner had it built by a very talented gunsmith and then hardly shot it as he lost interest in competition shooting. I'm going to get some pictures and more information up in the Tanfoglio section in the next couple days. I appreciate all the help and things to consider that you guys have passed on to me. Thanks again!! Edited April 13, 2011 by 93civiccpe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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