Zero 147 JHP lengths

[Gary H.]

I was taught to start working up loads by finding the point where the bullet just contacts the rifling then backing off .01 to start for accuracy. The Zero 147 doesn't contact the threads until it gets to 1.224 and if I back off to 1.21, their jamming in the magazine which will not let them cycle. Is this common with some bullets. Will this cause problems with accuracy? Or, am I putting emphasis on the wrong thing?

[gng4life]

I'm not sure about that but I would go by the manuals and guides that are put out along with SAAMI specs for the bullet. Those are the places I normally start and then work from there. SAAMI max length for a 9mm is 1.169.

Does factory ammo jam? I would guess it doesn't and I'm sure they are around the max length recommendation. Of course, we all know that we can move that somewhat but know all the factors before doing it and watch for pressure signs often.

[fastarget]

Those overall lenght are a bit long. you maybe thinking of handgun like rifle, but that does not work in some cases due to reaming chambers and available space in mags, feed ramps etc.

I have just loaded a bunch of zero at 1.12 oal, have not shot them however. At 1.118 and 1.116 they functioned well in both of our eagles. comparatively speaking those lengths translate to 1.155 to 1.16 for a standard round nose bullet. Quite a few people have loaded the zero so hang on.......

Edited March 21, 2011 by fastarget

[Fireant]

I load mine to 1.125 and they work fine. I was loading longer until they started binding in the mags.

[Hi-Power Jack]

What gun are you using?

In my Browning Hi-Power, I found the

147's were most accurate at 1.12" but

didn't feed reliably - at 1.13" they

fed perfectly but at a slight loss of

accuracy.

That's MG 147 JHP's.

[pjb45]

Factory length - VV manual = ~ 1.14. Probably does not touch the lands. No big deal. This is pistol not rifle. If you barrel was a Nowlin and reamed then talk with your gunsmith. My XD runs just fine with 1.14.

The shorter the length the less powder you have to use.

My HP has a Bar-Sto barrel that was cut for Winchester White box. If would puke on Remington. I need to check my handloads and AA with it.

[Gary H.]

I'm shooting this batch out of a M & P 9 and it eats just about anything I put through it as long as they'll fit in the magazines. My more accurate loads are 1.125 to 1.135. Getting one to work won't be an issue with this gun but accuracy is another thing. I was just trying to find a starting point and for my other loads wasn't an issue. This bullet must just have a different shape than I'm used to. Probably be great for feeding longer lengths for guns that can take it?

I tried the search function but it seems to be down and I get no results other than an error message.

Edited March 22, 2011 by Gary H.

[HHjr]

Here is my humble comment ........ It is very important to load OAL less than touching lands. Too long a OAL and you are struggling to get that live round out of the chamber. You must be able to reliably extract a live round on demand over a wide range of conditions .... Home, Range, IDPA/IPSC, failure drills.... all require unload and proceed/show clear to make your gun ready to stay in the fight or safe to put away.

I have two 9mm pistols and a Colt R6450 Carbine ... a OAL for the pistols cause a very difficult live round extraction in the carbine...... I have actually had to fire a live round in to the backstop at a carbine match because I could Not get the round out of the chamber..... HATE to have that happen when a misfire is in the chamber and a bad guy with a pipe is wanting to bash my head in. Ofcourse ones handloads Should Not be in the gun but I hope you get my point.

Do your research and stick to OAL that are tested to maintain safe working pressures and safe functionality requirement.

H

Edited March 28, 2011 by HHjr

[gm iprod]

That theory for accuracy applies to rifles pretty much exclusively. Bolt actions particularly. But in many magazine fed longguns that would require you to sinmgle load.

However in handguns a bunch of thoeries have often been proven horribly wrong.

Ideal OAL as previously stated is usually best to be somewhat shorter than maximum to fit a chamber and or magazine, dependant upon the shape of the projectiles' nose. JHP have a somewhat truncated length (not shape).

Most factory laods are very short with FMJ and not much different with JHP. But they are made to fit every handgun, not just yours.

SAAMI maximum for 9mm with a Round Nose projectile is 1.167" this is alikely to fit and feed in most but maybe not all handguns of modern construction. For factory guns (not custom built) I have found with nearly all JHP projectiles that you need not too much more than 1.135", I generally prefer 1.125". Depending on the model handgun I have often had to load shorter.

My just arrived back from gunsmith (having a new barrel fitted) Tanfoglio P19 Limited I can get away with 1.145" OAL on Zero's and about .005" shorter with Sierra 115gr JHP. Fully reliable at this stage.

If you have a Para Ordnance, STI etc 1911 length magazine you may have to load out to 1.18" and sometimes longer to ensure relaible feed, but of late the chambers in Para will not accept that load length.

[Flexmoney]

I was taught to start working up loads by finding the point where the bullet just contacts the rifling then backing off .01 to start for accuracy. The Zero 147 doesn't contact the threads until it gets to 1.224 and if I back off to 1.21, their jamming in the magazine which will not let them cycle. Is this common with some bullets. Will this cause problems with accuracy? Or, am I putting emphasis on the wrong thing?

That might be fine in a rifle when you are going for accuracy.

In an auto-loading pistol, there are more factors. The primary factor, IMO, when setting OAL for a pistol is to set for the best feeding into the chamber. Within that, they need to be short enough to run through the magazines (full high capacity is where they hang up). They need to be back off the rifling, with room to spare for any slop. Generally, I like to load toward the longer side of the OAL envelope, as this likely reduces peak pressure when the round goes off.

What gun are you using? (1911 based guns can take a longer OAL than 9mm based guns like the Glock)

[edit] I see you are running an M&P...

I run a Glock. My minor load with Zero 147's is 1.135 OAL.

[Gary H.]

That theory for accuracy applies to rifles pretty much exclusively. Bolt actions particularly. But in many magazine fed longguns that would require you to sinmgle load.

However in handguns a bunch of thoeries have often been proven horribly wrong.

OK, that answers the remaining question. All the other loads I have developed, the method of using a magic marker on the projectile and loading into a previously fired case with no powder to longer length had all worked out within a reasonable OAL. This bullet was way longer before it hit the lands in the rifling, creating the question. I had no idea that he accuracy on a pistol would be less effected by the OAL. No matter, using my old methodology won't work with this bullet anyhow and I started using the 1.135 OAL that I've had luck with on the other loads. I haven't got around so shooting them yet but I'll post up when I know more. This snow this weekend put a damper on my plans.