1911 government re-issue

[Singlestack]

I've just had to remove some posts from this thread. We DO NOT call each other names on this Forum. If you disagree with someone, do it with respect. We will not tolerate name calling. You folks know better. If your post is gone, you know why.

[Alaskapopo]

This whole thing is retarded. Probably .0001% of those who carry a pistol would ever actually use it. A better answer would be to turn that money into some real carbines firing a cartridge built to be shot out of a short barrel, and that don't weigh ten pounds with accessories attached.

Or turn the money into ammo. Firing 50 rounds/year is not conducive to being good with anything.

This is such a waste of money.

So what happens to that .0001% when their rifle pukes? THis is hypothetical anyway, we are just having fun with the 100 year anniversary.

They die and this is the cost of doing business. It really isn't rational to make a billion dollar decision for .0001%.

Believe it or not, life is not priceless.

I think, actually, that better training and more ammo would be better than ANY new weapon or cartridge.

I think life is priceless also really how expensive is having a sidearm for every soldier vs the cost of a few F22 Raptors. Its all relative. Just my opinion. I think we should be giving our troops all the equipment and training that we possibly can.

Pat

[BlueOvalBruin]

Ok, if it had to be 1911 based and a .45, here’s what I would like to see:

Light rail

Integral plunger tube and grip bushings

Ejector redesign

Eliminate the grip safety

commander hammer

enlarged trigger guard

3 dot fixed night sights with a glock style front sight

1-piece aluminum magwell (smith and Alexander style)

Plastic grips

8-rd mag

FDE color

Properly designed external extractor

Aluminum frame

[Nemo]

Holie crap!! Some folks just need to get a sense of humor, or a goldfish, or a life... I started this thread because I like my 1911s and am building my very personal centennial commemorative to look how I believe it should look like if issued today. But most of all this thread is to get you all to enjoy thinking about the subject, about how cool it is that this machine design has withstood 100 years of service basically unchanged. Think about how many of us, our parents or our grandparents had one of these issued, what we'd give to have THAT original one.

If the subject causes you so much grief or makes you wanna take some TUMS, just change the channel, go get your tupperware in the dishwasher, or find some new $500 accessory to hang on your .346 BS Magnum AR-17 8-sided and railed handguard.

*************************************

Now, my 1911 spec would read something like:

Forged frame & slide

Frame front strap checkered at 30LPI

Novak Sight cuts (for cutting cost)

Heinie lo mount rear sight ledge black (no dots or inserts)

Tritium insert front sight

Short LOP lightweight trigger

Mainspring housing w/ lanyard loop

Beavertail w/ bump

Commander hammer

Extended single side thumb safety

Non-wooden grip panels

Seven 8-round mags per issued pistola (only Wilson 47D or Chip McCormick Power Mags accepted)

Standard GI guide rod

Barrel Bushing must turn w/o need for tools

I'm cool with any slide release and mag catch.

Not sure how to spring it for military hardball... What do you say?

*************************************

Oh, I have another idea... Maybe we should segregate our armed forces in two groups: Those capable of learning and mastering a 1911, and those that can only be trained to draw and shoot.

[Avezorak]

Better sights! Some type of fixed rear with dovetailed front

I think it would be cool to have a modular frame and polygrip like an S_I but with in single stack with a small builtin magwell

9 or 10 rd mags, maybe polymer

Beavertail

Commander hammer

Light rail

Make it lightweight, sturdy and easy to clean and replace parts.

Hell Id like to have one myself!

[twodownzero]

This whole thing is retarded. Probably .0001% of those who carry a pistol would ever actually use it. A better answer would be to turn that money into some real carbines firing a cartridge built to be shot out of a short barrel, and that don't weigh ten pounds with accessories attached.

Or turn the money into ammo. Firing 50 rounds/year is not conducive to being good with anything.

This is such a waste of money.

So what happens to that .0001% when their rifle pukes? THis is hypothetical anyway, we are just having fun with the 100 year anniversary.

They die and this is the cost of doing business. It really isn't rational to make a billion dollar decision for .0001%.

Believe it or not, life is not priceless.

I think, actually, that better training and more ammo would be better than ANY new weapon or cartridge.

I think life is priceless also really how expensive is having a sidearm for every soldier vs the cost of a few F22 Raptors. Its all relative. Just my opinion. I think we should be giving our troops all the equipment and training that we possibly can.

Pat

I agree with that.

I do also think, though, that many of us fail to realize that the handgun is a tertiary weapons system for a Soldier. I spent 3 years in the reserves and never drew one from the armory even once. I was never trained how to use a handgun in the Army at all.

Expertise with the primary weapons system is a far more pressing consideration than replacing the M9, although I do think that the M9 lacks the ergonomics that a good military pistol ought to have.

I also disagree with those who say that a double action pistol would be a better choice. Single action firearms might be harder to operate since the safety needs to be swept off, but they are also MUCH easier for the inexperienced shooter to deliver shots accurately. Trigger pull is a big consideration with any firearm, but ESPECIALLY with pistols, because even minor changes in trigger weight and length can make it much more difficult for a shooter who doesn't get to practice enough to hit accurately.

I haven't shot in about a month and I just got back from the range. I was surprised at how flinchy I was with my carry gun! Without fairly regular dryfire, marksmanship is a deteriorating skill and so ergonomics is KEY to helping inexperienced shooters deliver the shots most effectively.

[Aglifter]

A) I would probably go with some kind of P7 like squeeze cocker.

5", in 38 super, with SV style tubes, so I can shoot surplus brass, and get cheap mags

[Nik Habicht]

This whole thing is retarded. Probably .0001% of those who carry a pistol would ever actually use it. A better answer would be to turn that money into some real carbines firing a cartridge built to be shot out of a short barrel, and that don't weigh ten pounds with accessories attached.

Or turn the money into ammo. Firing 50 rounds/year is not conducive to being good with anything.

This is such a waste of money.

So what happens to that .0001% when their rifle pukes? THis is hypothetical anyway, we are just having fun with the 100 year anniversary.

They transition to what's currently in inventory -- or to whatever they personally own/bring, as long as it fires the issued ammo. I'm not a fan of either the Beretta or the 1911 -- neither platform really fits my hands -- so I'd favor an approach that allows folks to carry their personally owned sidearm, with some limitations....

[38supPat]

I do also think, though, that many of us fail to realize that the handgun is a tertiary weapons system for a Soldier. I spent 3 years in the reserves and never drew one from the armory even once. I was never trained how to use a handgun in the Army at all

Not sure when you served but it was the same for me, however with the type of battlefield we are seeing in the current conflicts things are different. I know if I was serving over there I'd be pretty happy to be carrying a pistol in a FIBUA situation. I've also heard of at least a couple of situations where soldiers hadd to rely on the pistol when they were unable to quickly bring other systems to bear....and had to figure it out for themselves because they had never been taught. Really not the time to be learning how a pistol operates!

If I had to pick it would be hard, you need something sturdy but also something that is as light as you can make it and still stand up.

I think I'd end up with an all steel 1911, decent sights like Heinies. Single side slightly enlarged safety. Probably go with the Caspian type frame with built in mag well, tactical cut. 5" barrel and slide. Aluminum back strap and beavertail. Solid Aluminum trigger,

Or just say here's an SVI IMM .38 Super, we'll figure out a holster for it....the noise alone should spread fear to the enemy!

Or a 9X25! They'll poop!

[Nik Habicht]

I started this thread because I like my 1911s and am building my very personal centennial commemorative to look how I believe it should look like if issued today. But most of all this thread is to get you all to enjoy thinking about the subject, about how cool it is that this machine design has withstood 100 years of service basically unchanged. Think about how many of us, our parents or our grandparents had one of these issued, what we'd give to have THAT original one.

And that's a pretty cool reason. I hope yours turns out as well as you wish it to, and that you have a lot of fun shooting it....

Oh, I have another idea... Maybe we should segregate our armed forces in two groups: Those capable of learning and mastering a 1911, and those that can only be trained to draw and shoot.

Maybe we should segregate our armed forces in two groups: Those who choose to learn and master a 1911 and are willing to bet their life on that choice, and those that choose to do something else, whether that's to learn and master another platform, or to simply accept the issued sidearm as another part of their gear.....

[Jim Norman]

Interesting thoughts presented herein.

The original 1911 had a couple of minor problems. Sharp corners and the short grip safety being the biggest. Both have been corrected. So I would go with a single stack, beavertail, nickel boron finish (I think I understand this to be a self-lubricating finish that can run dry), 8 round gun with a flat topped serrated slide fitted with Heine sights with tritium dots.

I'd stay away from double columns, polymer frames, safe or DA actions. I'd invest the time and money in the solider, sailor airman or Marine hover that was going to be or likely to be issued a sidearm that it takes to teach them to shoot.

[Flexmoney]

This is how we get ants.

[Lewiston]

Beavertail, Ambi safety, Heine straight 8 Sights, 8 rounds, Checkered front strap and main spring housing.

[wmspdi]

Well, I would just take the specs for the Springfield TRP, change out the FLGR for a GI recoil system, give it a hard chrome finish, maybe the Operator light rail and call it done. If the SA custom built version called the "Professional" is good enough for the FBI SWAT agents then the TRP should work for the military. It would like to see it stay a .45 ACP, but you might have to build it in 9mm to keep the NATO folks happy. Sadly it will never happen... whimpy K.I.S.S. guns and plastic is are here to stay.

Edited February 25, 2011 by wmspdi

[diablodawg]

I think life is priceless also really how expensive is having a sidearm for every soldier vs the cost of a few F22 Raptors. Its all relative. Just my opinion. I think we should be giving our troops all the equipment and training that we possibly can.

Pat

Very few troops need a handgun, and the opportunity to use one in combat is so rare its really not even a factor. The weight is not worth the trade-off I carried both in Afghanistan and usually left the pistol behind when I went out of the wire. 99% of engagements were out of range of a pistol anyways. The only foreseeable use would be for an assault team member clearing a structure who's primary goes down. The problem is you don't know who that's going to be outside of Direct Action type missions (raids, etc.) and it's not worth the 3-5 lbs of weight for every Marine (or whoever) to carry one. Don't forget we carry 60-120 lbs without pistols (many closer to 120.)

Along the hypothetical features discussion line, and not on the intellectual line, I would say:

Polymer frame/lightened slide for weight reduction

Night Sights

Extra large beavertail for use with gloves

Enlarger trigger guard (gloves again)

Enlarged safety and slide stop

Aluminum magwell

Loose tolerances (remember it's potentially a PFC with little training operating, and Lance Corporal with a little more training maintaining.)

[chrisjohn]

Uh, JMB specs and eight round magazines. Sure add a light rail if you want or some modern tritium sights. A lot of enemies have dispatched with the issue 1911 than any other platform. Just saying.

[Alaskapopo]

I think life is priceless also really how expensive is having a sidearm for every soldier vs the cost of a few F22 Raptors. Its all relative. Just my opinion. I think we should be giving our troops all the equipment and training that we possibly can.

Pat

Very few troops need a handgun, and the opportunity to use one in combat is so rare its really not even a factor. The weight is not worth the trade-off I carried both in Afghanistan and usually left the pistol behind when I went out of the wire. 99% of engagements were out of range of a pistol anyways. The only foreseeable use would be for an assault team member clearing a structure who's primary goes down. The problem is you don't know who that's going to be outside of Direct Action type missions (raids, etc.) and it's not worth the 3-5 lbs of weight for every Marine (or whoever) to carry one. Don't forget we carry 60-120 lbs without pistols (many closer to 120.)

Along the hypothetical features discussion line, and not on the intellectual line, I would say:

Polymer frame/lightened slide for weight reduction

Night Sights

Extra large beavertail for use with gloves

Enlarger trigger guard (gloves again)

Enlarged safety and slide stop

Aluminum magwell

Loose tolerances (remember it's potentially a PFC with little training operating, and Lance Corporal with a little more training maintaining.)

You guys are in such good shape it seems like an extra 3 pounds would not be noticed. My mentality is that two guns is a gun and one gun is no gun at all. Things break and its always good to have a last ditch back up. Most of the situations I am in are going through buildings after making entry so the train of thought is different.

Pat

[diablodawg]

You guys are in such good shape it seems like an extra 3 pounds would not be noticed. My mentality is that two guns is a gun and one gun is no gun at all. Things break and its always good to have a last ditch back up. Most of the situations I am in are going through buildings after making entry so the train of thought is different.

Pat

You notice every pound- don't forget, it's not carrying it for a half hour to the grocery store... its all day, every day. The three pounds could be better invested in other things- that's 3xM4 mags, 3xM203 rounds, extra water, batteries, etc. I understand the 2 is 1, 1 is none philosophy: except having a pistol with a couple of mags at 300m is probably more dangerous than having a few extra magazines or more water. Range/accuracy is everything and a pistol's effective range is so short, its just not worth the effort.

[Singlestack]

Guys, we are getting way out in the weeds here.

[Alaskapopo]

You guys are in such good shape it seems like an extra 3 pounds would not be noticed. My mentality is that two guns is a gun and one gun is no gun at all. Things break and its always good to have a last ditch back up. Most of the situations I am in are going through buildings after making entry so the train of thought is different.

Pat

You notice every pound- don't forget, it's not carrying it for a half hour to the grocery store... its all day, every day. The three pounds could be better invested in other things- that's 3xM4 mags, 3xM203 rounds, extra water, batteries, etc. I understand the 2 is 1, 1 is none philosophy: except having a pistol with a couple of mags at 300m is probably more dangerous than having a few extra magazines or more water. Range/accuracy is everything and a pistol's effective range is so short, its just not worth the effort.

I admit I don't know much about what it is required for being a soldier. My way of thinking comes from law enforcement. The majority of our threats are close range. So I may be off base. No offense was meant. Stay safe over there.

Pat

Edited February 26, 2011 by Alaskapopo

[Nemo]

[BoldasLions]

One of the greatest, if not the greatest. None the less, we are in a new age of tech! There's a large amount that needs to be changed. That's why I'm working on a new concept!

Edited February 28, 2011 by BoldasLions