Target Transitions AGAIN

[Larrys1911]

Would someone take the time to explain the body mechanics of a target transition to me.

IE after the Eyes and head if necessary (Or should the head move independently of the shoulders?), what moves and what doesn't and in what order. are your legs twisting? hips? just the shoulders? What is it for the fastest trans.

How does it change with distance between the targets?

IE Tgts touching, targets 1 yd apart, targets 3yds apart, targets 5 yds apart and say targets 180 degrees?

TIA

Larry P

[Larrys1911]

OH and what should tgt transtion times be for say 7 yds two full size IPSC tgts?

A good solid Master time would be fine, I think I am lacking here.

Larry P

[eric nielsen]

Here's a forum thread on "index" - how you transition your body onto targets.

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...=0entry117624

Todd Jarrett and many other top shooters do NOT move their head. You can just move your eyeballs as far as they'll go, while you're pivoting everything together, and you'll pick up the target long before you're body is ready to settle in & shoot.

As for times - they will be whatever they will be. Brian has written a lot about the proper sequence of eyes, body, sights, shotbreak. That sequence applies to every single shot. Start slow to train your subconscious to do it right & it will pay you big dividends.

The bigger the change from your "old" way to a new "right" way, the more you want to be disciplined and NOT let the old ways creep back into your mind. Exclude them - even if you need to skip some weekly matches. My $.02

[Ron Ankeny]

That question would make an entire chapter in a book, lol. I am not a good solid Master, but I am a Master of sorts, lol. At five to seven yards on closely spaced targets my breaks (transitions) are about the same as my splits. I have a drill from Matt Burkett's manual that I track every couple of months. One target is at 15 yards, a second target at 7 yards, with 5 yard spacing edge to edge. I time the transitions going near to far and far to near. Going from 15 to 7 yards I am running in the .30 range. Half again that going from 7 to 15. I am sure there are M class shooters who are slower and those who are much faster.

[Matthew_Mink]

Larry, we need to practice again.

The other day I realized that if the targets aren't spaced that far apart, usually the only thing that I move are my eyes and arms. The wider it gets, I start pivoting at the hips, then shifting my feet. And all that depends on where the next set of targets are. I only realized this after I was just doing it without thinking about it. That may not exactly answer your question, but maybe it helps.

BTW, I may be out at CASA sometime this weekend if you want to get together. I don't know what day yet.

[kimel]

Transitions and cadence are closely related. Matt's videos really drove this home for me. I had to go to the range and PROVE to myself that it really was faster. You will need a timer to work on this. If you don't have one, make up a gift giving holiday and buy yourself a gift.

Your splits and transitions should be the same. If right now you pull .16 splits but .40 transitions try and make everything .25. You will have much better hits and save yourself time. Once you have that down you can speed it up and drive everything down lower and lower.

What is happening (IMHO) is that cadence forces you to retain control at every instant. It is realllll easy to slip into the "2 shots, 1 sight picture" habit. Sure, you get lightning fast splits but that second shot is not really well controlled and more often than not is a C or D hit.

I had to take everything out to .45 or so to get it smoothed out and then I sped it up. Several thousand rounds of practice it is starting to be natural and not something I have to think about.

The drill Ron mentioned is a very good one to work with. Be sure and run it both ways: 15,7,5 and 5,7,15. It does make a difference.

There are a number of threads here about cadence and a quick search should find them for you. I believe one of them has a link to some video of Blake Miguez. He is incredibly smooth and if you listen you cannot tell the difference between his splits and transitions. He is also lightning fast.

Good luck and hope this helps!

[Larrys1911]

Matt,

Matt is that hips or knees? I guess thats where I am really unsure whats going on is in the "turret" part. I need to get to the range and run some real drills and see whats happening. I would like some input on what works. And there is NO DOUBT what you are doing works.

There is a Low Light match Sat. at CASA That I am "hoping" to attend.

Yes we do need to get together soon, I learned a lot last time.

I hear that you did pretty good on points Great Job

Larry P

[Larrys1911]

Ron & Kimel

Im not as interested in time right now I just wanna know where I should be.

(I already do really, just in denial really, I shoot with Matt enough to know what they should be.)

What I am interested in is the mechanics of it whats moving and what is not. I have been told never move your knees and I have been told ONLY move your knees, and everything in between.

I find that I can make fewer FUBARS that need to be retrained in Dry fire training if I know what the mechanics of a technique are or should be.

Unlike Matt I really dont know what I do, but I do know I cant come close to his trans on an open array, I have tried.

I can probably pick up .15 to .2 per transition on 7 yd tgts 2yds apart.

Im running .3 to .4 comfortably That should be .2s.

I had a instructor tell me that my splits on a 2 tgts 1yd apart were the same as two tgts 5 yds apart. I tried it and was and still probably is right.

I may be doing OK on the farther apart tgts but the close ones seem to really slow me down.

Another thing that I cant seem to get over is remembering to MOVE the D@MN gun. I have no problem with movement and moving when necessarry but it seems I always "forget" that moving "the gun" from one tgt to another is just as important if not more so. That would probably do wonders too but even remembering that, shooting with Matt was an eye opener.

Larry P

[Flexmoney]

After having enough visual patience to call the last shot before the transition...snap the eyes to the next target.

The eyes, when snapped to the next target, will lead...then the head will move (if the transition is big enough)...and the gun turret will follow.

For stability, the turret needs to rotated as low on the body as you can get it. Try to avoid anything moving above the waist. Hips and knees are where you want to move from.

On Ron Avery's videos he throw a ball at a person...and has them catch it.

I have a weighted medicine ball that I do that with. When I toss it at somebody, I want them to get in front of it so that they catch the ball with their hands in the center of their chest...between the nipples. Catching a weighted ball like that makes the shooter have to get into an athletic stance...bent knees, weight on the toes, etc...

This type of stance helps a shooter handle recoil (not as much of a factor if shooting Minor or Open) and also allows for pivoting the turrent through movement of the lower body.

In other words...don't stand stiff-legged, toes pointing forward, feet 8 inches apart. Be loose and "light".

[BigDave]

After having enough visual patience to call the last shot before the transition...

Nice Flex.

I think that really is the key to good hits and transitions, and where I myself struggle. A fast transition doesn't mean a thing if the shot before it was garbage.

[shred]

Middlin-M Data point: Today I spent lunchtime dinking around at the range shooting 6" paper plates, just to help y'all out (the things I do for science ) I drew, shot two on one, and one on the next to see what the split/transition were. At 10 yards, with about a yard separating the plates, my all-hits-see-the-dot-lift splits were .22-.24 and transitions about .24-.28.

This was a muzzle-nudge transition. Opening up to a full classic target dropped my splits a few 10ths, but also added a couple C's to the mix.

[eric nielsen]

Skip the "turret" part.

In my mind that word conjures up the image of an M1A1 Abrams tank, which has about 7/10 of its weight below the gun turret and 3/10 above.

Strive to move everything above your knees as one unit. 7/10 above & 3/10 below.

The Blake Drills are important. Start with 3 or 4 targets, one target width space between them. Then space them further & further out. If you're right handed, it will take more work to get the same cadence going right-to-left. Sorta have to commit to a body lean in that direction. Or set up your feet on the far left target.

Everyone is different. Use a timer, paste the targets OFTEN, and experiment. Read Brian's book. More than once. Every time I learn something new, usually turns out it was in the book all along.

[benos]

It's easy to over think this kind of stuff.

While shooting a string of fire, the ONLY time your head should ever move is if the upcoming target lies OUTSIDE your peripheral vision. This rarely happens. So, almost always, once your gun has reached your index, nothing above the waist should move as you acquire targets, EXCEPT YOUR EYES.

Then, without shooting, it's easy to figure out the rest of the mechanics. Stand upright (feet approx in shooting position), looking straight ahead, with arms normally at sides. Then, on cue, as quickly as possible, find and focus on an object on the right edge of your peripheral vision. Repeat many times while becoming sensitive to how your body, from the waist down, naturally responds to the "intent" provided by your vision. It happens to quick to think about. Working in harmony, your feet, knees, legs, and hips rotate together to find the object of desire.

I often save Word docs of common or good questions; I dug a few up and pasted them in here, so we can get 'em all in one place...

be

05.03

The key to quick transitions lies in SEEING EVERYTHING. Your gun will move quickly to the next target only if you called the shot perfectly on the target you just shot. Think about it. If you "shoot at" a target, but don't know, at the instant the shot fired, if the shot was acceptable, (meaning hit the intended target, whether it was a steel plate or the A box), your mind is functioning in doubt, not certainty. So your gun moves in a half-ass, leisurely manner to the next target. On the other hand, if see the site lift and know instantly and for certain that the shot was acceptable, your eye will locate the next target without hesitation and your pistol will follow decisively.

01.03

Transition speed is influenced by two factors:

1) IMMEDIATE, instantaneous, calling of the shot;

2) Simultaneous visual acquisition of the next target (either centrally or peripherally).

When you understand transition speed properly, there's really no "speed" involved. Moving quickly (to the next target) is the result of your INTENTION to shoot the next target as quickly as possible, and is manifested by the occurrence of the previous two conditions.

10.03

Disragarding skill in index, two factors determine split times.

1) How quickly you see the next target.

2) The precision of your call, on the pervious target.

Of the two, number two is about twice as important as number one.

Or, how you leave is more important than where you go.

Only if you know for certain as the shot is fired that it is acceptable, will you move toward the next target decisively. Hesitation, no matter how slight, always loses.

12.03

Perhaps one answer is that, when we snap our eyes to the next target* to lead the gun, we are simply snapping to brown, or to the whole plate. We aren't snapping to the center of the Alpha, or the center of the plate. We are letting our eyes get lazy. Thus, we drive the sights onto a vague area, as opposed to driving the gun to the center of the scoring area.

That's what most do, and it's a big fat huge loser. Not only will your gun not move decisively to the next target's maximum scoring area, you'll waste time finding it when you both finally commune there.

We seldom see what we need to see because we're always in a hurry. And if you didn't enjoy hurrying you’d be shooting Bullseye. So as is often true, what's most innate is a source of problems. Because of this, the real challenge is often more akin to interrupting a compulsive response. Looking like this may help unravel a problem without even looking at the specifics of the problem itself. Examine specific scenarios with the filter - In this situation, what do I typically do, and is it the most appropriate or effective response. It's a big topic.

Calling and transitioning quickly is determined by how you apply your vision.

Your focus must be flexible and constantly in motion, not stuck on any one thing.

You must see just enough of what must be seen for you to know that what you want to happen is happening as it is happening. (Holy crap, that sentence is cracking me up.)

Let go of the speedy transitions idea and experiment with how you find targets.

Find and see a plate as a clearly recognized round object - before your gun gets there – every single time.

Find the A box as clearly recognized rectangle (if you can see the scoring lines) - before the gun gets there. (For every target.)

Even when finding targets as above, keep your vision "soft," so you never lose track of the sights. (That's a tricky one.)

Learn how you need to see each upcoming target to hit the maximum scoring area as quickly as possible.

If you can see the A box – then see it. But as soon as you have "bring in the sights." You’ll find they’ll go right to the middle of what you found, if you took the time to find it.

If the targets is at 50 yards, look right at the dead center of it until your gun breaks into your peripheral vision.

Think of how the principle of calling extends beyond just the shot.

Stick with it,

be

one more thought:

Don't get sloppy and just shoot without seeing enough, and be wary of trying to see too much.

Make it as simple as possible. First you need to clearly locate the target you intend to hit; whether it's a nickel, a playing card, an A box, or an 18 x 24" steel rectangle at 7 yds. Then you need to see enough of the gun to KNOW you are hitting the target as the gun is firing. That's all there is to it.

[Jasonub]

as usual, brian explains it perfectly