Wild Gene Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 If you bring a kid to the Range, be prepared, they just might like it. I brought my son to an indoor range, and now, all he wants to do is go back! He is asking about Matches now. So, I let my son use the G34. It is set up very nicely for Production. The conventional wisdom is that they should compete in Open Division. Do I set the 34 up like an Open Gun, or do I buy an Open Gun, or do I just let him shoot another Division with the G34? I really do not want to have more calibers to reload. That is why I bought myself .40 S&W 1911 Single Stack, so I could use my Limited gun reloads. I can buy 9mm for him all day long, and he is happy. He is also 13, and may not want to do this forever. He is a lefty if that makes a difference. Any Ideas? Thanks, WG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark R Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 My son is now 13 and is a southpaw too. I started him shooting at 7 with a Glock model 22 (40 cal) but replaced the top end with a .22 cal conversion kit for local level 1 matches. When he was able to handle the 40, I loaded him some 40 minor loads and let him shoot limited and production. He enjoyed it for a while. I then picked up a nice G35 and he has used it for a while. Then I picked up a really nice Trubor open gun and now he wants to inherit it...that is until he got the computer gaming bug...sort of gave up on shooting for now. I'd get your son to shoot the G34 in production and let him try limited with full up mags. See if he really wants to pursue shooting before dumping a bunch of cash into it...unless you really want more guns. Most importantly, get him trained on the fundamentals of iron sights without all the bad habits. Using a G34 will be good for him...he won't have to concentrate on all the safeties and such...giving him more brain time to think about gun safety and stage breakdown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Gene Posted January 7, 2011 Author Share Posted January 7, 2011 That is what I was thinking, untill I JUST saw the SJC convertible comp. mount. At least so it would look like an Open gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMC Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 The conventional wisdom is that they should compete in Open Division. I don't thinks that's necessarily true. I know a few juniors (girls) who are really good with iron sights. I think whatever you start them with they will do fine with. My daughter started with Open in ICORE but shoots a production gun very well. In my daughters case, once we had the gun handling skills down changing guns was easy for her. She didn't have to concentrate on muzzle or trigger discipline because that had become second nature. I've always remember something Keith Code wrote about motorcycle riding but I think it applies to lots of situations. Think of your attention span as a dollar, when you start riding (or shooting) it takes 80 cents of the dollar just to make the thing go and stop leaving only 20 cents to deal with everything else. You need to get to a place where it only takes 20 cents to make the bike go and stop so you have 80 cents left to deal with the rest. As applied to shooting, if you can get the new person to a place where they don't have to focus on manipulating the gun they will have lots of metal power left for sights and stage plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Gene Posted January 7, 2011 Author Share Posted January 7, 2011 I've always remember something Keith Code wrote about motorcycle riding but I think it applies to lots of situations. Think of your attention span as a dollar, when you start riding (or shooting) it takes 80 cents of the dollar just to make the thing go and stop leaving only 20 cents to deal with everything else. You need to get to a place where it only takes 20 cents to make the bike go and stop so you have 80 cents left to deal with the rest. That is going in the "KEEPER" file! Thank You, WG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWHaz Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Show him this; http://www.uspsa2.org/images/SBT/010701_sbt_Gunnel_Vendela_Alan_Asa-2.jpg Just funnin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik S. Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Buy him something you yourself would love to shoot. That's my rule of thumb when picking up gear for my wife who is not into USPSA yet but an avid shooter. The biggest mistake people make is buying a "starter" setup that they themselves wouldn't be seen with on the range. I use "" around starter because any first gun can be considered a "starter" gun. Buy him a gun that he WILL shoot and like it, too! That will accomplish two things: 1. it will likely up his chances of staying in the sport since he'll like his gun ... and 2. If he does lose interest, you'll be left with a nice piece that won't sit in the safe. I must say that I am a proponent of training new shooters with iron sights and low recoil/low noise firearms, but you'll have to make the judgment call as to the skill level of your son. Safety is always first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latech15 Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Oh you guys are really missing this one. Give him your old gun and get yourself a new one. Never miss an opportunity to buy a new gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik S. Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 I knew I was missing something! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Gene Posted January 9, 2011 Author Share Posted January 9, 2011 Oh you guys are really missing this one. Give him your old gun and get yourself a new one. Never miss an opportunity to buy a new gun. I didn't miss the opportunity. I bought My Edge thinking he would shoot the Glock. I did not buy another Glock (think G35), because I did not want the possibility of mixing up the Magazines while in a rush. I was just wondering if the Glock, and just shooting Limited or L10 was a good decision. I think there are not many guns that can fill so many roles as the G34, so while it is a good Starter gun, it will also not hold you back, and it can be used in so many disciplines. I have no regrets with the Glock, I am just not able to shoot one as well as the SA trigger, after transitioning over from cowboy action and the SA triggers on my revolvers. Just not quite as capable as Jessie and Randi for some reason. I guess I have almost answered my own question, but I still enjoy other opinions. Thank you, WG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOF Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 (edited) Just a personal opinion, but a new shooter who is trained and thoroughly grounded in the fundimentals of iron sights can make the transistion to Open Class optical sights easily. The reverse is not so true. If you really want him to be a good shooter, I would start him with iron sights in Production, or L-10...round count and reloading experience... and them let him shoot Limited when he gets that down. If the "bug" really bites him, that's the time to go Open Class. IMHO. YMMV. You might also teach him to reload ammo. If he gets serious, he'll need a lot of it. GOF Edited January 9, 2011 by GOF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Gene, set him up for production. Let him get good with that, then Limited or something else. Learning to shoot an iron sited gun is a much better way to learn (IMO) than starting with a dot. If he learns to shoot an iron sie first (and well), he can pick up any gun (dot or not) and shoot it well. Plus, buying him an open gun, with the costs, etc., and a childs attention span..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik S. Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 At the local club here, alot of the open guys are SUPER good, so if he starts there, he's likely to get discouraged. Just another thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Miles Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Let the boy shoot minor Limited. Less recoil to deal with and less reloads he'll have to make at first which also helps him deal with less complicated round counts. Bring him along in the easiest way possible. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latech15 Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 I would say production with the 34. That way he won't have that much recoil to deal with, he will have to learn to reload a bunch, and you don't have tons of money in it should he change his mind and decide that girls are more important than shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 The conventional wisdom is that they should compete in Open Division. I'm not sure where the conventional wisdom came from. Actually I'd never heard that before. In any event, Open strikes me as a really poor choice for a young teenager with not much shooting experience. The guns are big and heavy, grip size is large, the compensator makes them ungodly loud, and also gives the gun quite a bit of rearward push - assuming you're firing Major, natch, nothing like running those .357 Magnum level loads through a gun that holds its front down so that recoil can't dissipate through muzzle flip to make it not terribly fun to shoot. Open competitors put up with all that in return for a gun that has less muzzle flip, but for a young shooter with small hands there are just WAY too many negatives there. Also, while some Open guns are functionally reliable, quite a few aren't, and dealing with malfs in the middle of a stage is not a problem with which we want to be saddling newbies at their very first match. Let him shoot your G34 in Production. Assuming his hands are large enough to handle the Glock grip, I can't think of any reason the G34 couldn't serve him well for the purpose.The gun is light and easy to manipulate, recoil is mild, the reilability level is up there, he's already shot it and (I assume if he's this hooked on shooting) liked it, and you already have the gun. Also there's the subliminal message this sends: "I let you shoot my gun, and you did such a good job with it that now I'm letting you shoot it in a match." It's just a win-win all the way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Gene Posted January 10, 2011 Author Share Posted January 10, 2011 This is funny, in another thread, I had thought OPEN was a stretch for a new shooter. I was of the opinion that he shoot Production, and worry about making the hits, not speed. Several people in that thread had suggested shooting OPEN for a new younger shooter. I even received an email from a very reputable shooter/instructor that said most of our UBER SHOOTERS started off shooting OPEN, then moved to Limited. I wish I could find that particular thread, but am not even certain which board it was on. I have seen compelling arguments for every Division except Single Stack. I wouldn't expect there to be one for SS. I believe the best route is to let him shoot what I have, the G34, let him get good at it, and then see what happens. I think Production will be tough, but hey, you don't get better unless you push a little, and compete against shooters that are better than you. I can tell you we have gone back, and he is getting better. I have a lot of steel here at home, and lots of area to shoot, so once the wether gets better, we will move to shooting at home and to shooting some steel too. I need to keep it mixed up so he maintains interest. Thank you, WG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. 10mm Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Just another thought is to try Steel Challange matches. Our club used to hold a Steel match on an alternate weekend from our USPSA matches and quite a few young folks would participate. While the accuracy required can be somewhat intimidating for new shooters, it has the advanatges of not requiring movement (for most of the courses), it gets them used to the RO commands, there are a limited number of set courses of fire, and they can start with rimfire (there is no penality for minor PF). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gohuskers Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 The conventional wisdom is that they should compete in Open Division. I don't thinks that's necessarily true. I know a few juniors (girls) who are really good with iron sights. I think whatever you start them with they will do fine with. My daughter started with Open in ICORE but shoots a production gun very well. In my daughters case, once we had the gun handling skills down changing guns was easy for her. She didn't have to concentrate on muzzle or trigger discipline because that had become second nature. I've always remember something Keith Code wrote about motorcycle riding but I think it applies to lots of situations. Think of your attention span as a dollar, when you start riding (or shooting) it takes 80 cents of the dollar just to make the thing go and stop leaving only 20 cents to deal with everything else. You need to get to a place where it only takes 20 cents to make the bike go and stop so you have 80 cents left to deal with the rest. As applied to shooting, if you can get the new person to a place where they don't have to focus on manipulating the gun they will have lots of metal power left for sights and stage plan. TMC this is exactly right! I attended Keith's California Superbike School way back in 1992 and he emphasized that very thing; it can also be found in his video "A Twist of the Wrist" and it's applicable to shooting, and every other activity requiring concentration. Good call! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 The conventional wisdom is that they should compete in Open Division. I'm not so sure that's really conventional wisdom. Some of this depends on how old/big he is and how big his hands are, but I'd probably suggest Limited Minor. It keeps the recoil mild, makes reloads a bit less critical, and will generally simplify things. For a junior lefty, I'd probably go with an M&P 9L or Pro because it's about the most lefty friendly gun around, and has a smaller grip than a Glock. Throw mag extensions on a couple of mags, and he could get through most stages with one reload. I've yet to see a really young junior that didn't frequently needs lots of extra ammo, so Production might be a little frustrating. Generally speaking, I'd stay away from a true Open gun to start with...they're larger, louder, and not terribly "fun" from a recoil and blast perspective. The one exception to that would be maybe a kid that had some vision issues where a dot would help....you don't want them frustrated by missing all of the time. R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Just a personal opinion, but a new shooter who is trained and thoroughly grounded in the fundimentals of iron sights can make the transistion to Open Class optical sights easily. No such thing. I've seen more than a few folks try an Open gun and have problems with all of the visual input you get from an Open gun. I shot Area-2 with a very solid A or M Limited shooter who borrowed a gun (a nice one too!) and was trying his hand at Open...at the end he said "I hate this, there's just too much going on visually for me". R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Gene Posted January 14, 2011 Author Share Posted January 14, 2011 Hello and thank you all! Lots of great ideas and suggestions. As far as the idea of starting him in OPEN. That was suggested to me by a Civillian and LEO Firearms instructor that teaches over in Western Washington. His exact words were, and I quote: "For you to ponder....Most all your current top pro shooter started at a young age (13 or so). All had dads that shot. Pros I've talked with all suggest starting young shooters out in open." So it wasn't my idea, just a very good suggestion from someone that is a friend and respected shooter and instructor. I will probably let him shoot a few matches in Limited Minor, making him walk the stages, and work on SAFETY and getting his hits. We can work on speeding up later. Bart, great idea about the M&P's. I will look into those, and if he really enjoys shooting that much, will take a serious look at one for him to shoot. He is fairly tall and lankey, fairly good size hands, but still left handed. I am not going to buy him something that he is not going to use, so for now the G34, but may use the M&P as a bit of an "incentive plan". Thank you all, WG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now