twikster Posted December 11, 2010 Share Posted December 11, 2010 Surely with all the advanced gear and training, some spectacular times could be demoed? What killed it off, IMHO, was the use of sloppy-loose unsafe "open front" holsters and the "hand hovering above the gun" starting position, This is the start used in Western Fast Draw. They do have to lift the SA revolver out of the rig, an inch or two, and they do have to hit a torso at 5 yds (wax bullets and primer only) and their 5 shot averages are in the .30' s, or so I am told. The only time I saw such a shoot was in the 70's. and a time in the high .50's won it. The SWPL record was .57 sec, IIRC, using an open front rig, a 6" revolver, and a 1 hand point. Bill French tried that for 8 years straight, Mike Dalton told me, until he put 5 hits together. I had an open front, and with only a few hours practice, got Weaver hits averaging in the low .60's, and the SWPL "retired" the match! With surrender start, and a rig that will actually hold the gun, and 10" A zone at 7 yds, I'd say today's guys ought to be getting 5 shot averages in the .60's. TGO once said that his wife could demo times in the .80's, at 10 yds, with a concealable (but openly worn) rig. That was in American Handgunner, I believe. From what I see posted here, the guys are giving away about .20 second, because they haven't truly worked on their draw speed. Now perhaps this is done with a reason, because such speed hurts accuracy at longer ranges, maybe causes a grip that is "bad" enough to ruin subsequent shots. I never was much at ranges beyond 10 yds, but I was hell on wheels at 5 yds and less. s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twikster Posted December 24, 2010 Author Share Posted December 24, 2010 wow, everyone's scared of this, or what? Sheesh. Well, then, in private practice, see if, at arm's length ranges, you can beat my average of .55 second, hands at sides start, secure holster, 1911, and all A's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted December 24, 2010 Share Posted December 24, 2010 Can you show a video of you doing it so that we know how it goes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twikster Posted December 24, 2010 Author Share Posted December 24, 2010 you don't know how such a simple thing as the draw is done? If so, what are you doing here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted December 24, 2010 Share Posted December 24, 2010 Trying to learn. I've never done any "fast draw" competitions, nor seen them. Show me how it's done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Miles Posted December 24, 2010 Share Posted December 24, 2010 you don't know how such a simple thing as the draw is done? If so, what are you doing here? Wow, for somebody who recently came on the scene here you sure throw around a lot of attitude! Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twikster Posted December 24, 2010 Author Share Posted December 24, 2010 Actually, I thought he was. Sorry. As for where I'm coming from, I helped write the IPSC charter, where were YOU in 1976? :-) Anyway, the .55 average is done by firing a 1 hand point. As the curve of the wrist hits the muscles of the pectorals/ribs, the gun is fired. It is considerably more dangerous with a 1911 than with a DA gun, so you really should have a muzzle forward cant speed rig, so that the muzzle never crosses your leg as you draw. This part of the draw is not helpful to the sort of matches discussed here. For those, you have to learn to get your hands together as the gun is thrust forward and as it comes up from the rig. It really takes very little longer to get a 2 handed, eyelevel point shot than it does to do a chest level 1 handed shot. The very slight hesitation, necessary to assure safety with the 1 handed style, costs you a bit of the time that you could in theory save by not using both hands. Karate men punch to full arm's length,at shoulder height from a cocked hand over hip start, in .010 sec or less. Slapping one hand into the other slows you down maybe at most another .010". So the "Isosoles Point" is at most .20 second slower than a 1 handed, chest level point shot, from the leather. In practice, it's proven to be only .010 second slower, for me, because delivering a (one time).50 second draw and it, 1 handed, scared me badly. I thought that I'd fired a premature shot, actually. However, I hit the A zone, at 3 ft of range. Bill Jordan I am not interested in being, at least not with a 1911. Bill could do this same thing in .35 second, but he had a rig that exposed the trigger guard,his draw had him partially pulling the trigger with the gun in the holster, the rig was completely insecure, and he had (supposedly) a reaction time of .09 second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullauto_Shooter Posted December 24, 2010 Share Posted December 24, 2010 you don't know how such a simple thing as the draw is done? If so, what are you doing here? Wow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTinVA Posted December 24, 2010 Share Posted December 24, 2010 In before the lock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Action Pistolero Posted December 24, 2010 Share Posted December 24, 2010 you don't know how such a simple thing as the draw is done? If so, what are you doing here? Wow! My thoughts exactly. I guess he is so full of himself that he didn't bother to look at Flex's post count or the fact that it says ADMIN below his name. SHEESH!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunakilla Posted December 24, 2010 Share Posted December 24, 2010 Well, if we had a video of your average .55 shots and what you define as a secure Holster we would be able to make an honest comparison of your Performance with ours. What is Arms Length? Is my Ted Blocker "Matchmaster" Holster secure enough? or will my Bladetech be equal to what you are using? Pictures or Videos are used on this Forum to compare apples to apples or help solve problems with reliability, accuracy, etc........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshidaex Posted December 24, 2010 Share Posted December 24, 2010 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve J Posted December 24, 2010 Share Posted December 24, 2010 Actually, I thought he was. Sorry. As for where I'm coming from, I helped write the IPSC charter, where were YOU in 1976? :-) John, are you in one of the photos? http://www.ipsc.org/cconf.htm You may want to check out some of the threads here too. http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showforum=34 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Well in 76 I was in the Phillipines, thanks for asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullauto_Shooter Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Well in 76 I was in the Phillipines, thanks for asking. Damn Kirt, how old were you then? In 76, I was celebrating the bicentennial by starting second grade. Already had a pistol then, but never enough BBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 (edited) 18 and I also celebrated the Bi-Centenial...and it did start with a "B" but it poured instead of rolled. Olongapo was DAMN WILD on the 4th! I didn't meet Cooper untill 78 when they held the first IPSC shoot on South Table Mesa just West of Denver...Remeber when Holsters were called "speed leather"? I still have my old Bianchi International and still wear it with my good old Series 70...but I don't know nothin bout no drawin! I just thought it was nice of Twikster to ask my whereabouts in 76 Edited January 3, 2011 by kurtm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 wow, everyone's scared of this, or what? Sheesh. Sorry to be so long in replying. When I read that someone was actually capable of doing a .6 draw, I first peed my pants and then went to hide under the bed for a few days. Where was I in '76? Well, Kiddies.....Let's just say I was pioneering the in the field of Tactical Shopping Mall Security Opts and leave it a that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 In 76, I was busy collecting 7-UP cans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Ladies and Gentlemen, My Sensei: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Ladies and Gentlemen, My Sensei: Wow Sam...thought that guy had killed himself by now...what a clip.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark R Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 In 76 I was in the Army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMV Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 you don't know how such a simple thing as the draw is done? If so, what are you doing here? I would REALLY liked to have seen the expression on Flex's face when he read this post the first time... (blunt comment about the OP's lack of manners and terrible attitude withheld) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 TL, I sure hope all the rumors of Diamond Dave's demise have been greatly exaggerated. But, such is the life of danger he has chosen. I mean, this guy knows things that......well.... only he knows. He's like the Wilileaks of trailer park Ninjadom. Some of this stuff just shouldn't have gotton out to the masses. But, he does offer the thoughtful and compassionate advice, "now don'tcha go a ninjain' nobody what don't need ninjain'". I haven't been so inspired since the first time I watched "Billy Jack". Yeah, it takes me back all right. '76...'74...'72.... Hell, I WAS there. Must stop typing now.... eyes tearing up....Stay Strong my Brother. -Sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 in 76 I was.....err I wasn't I'm still waiting on a .5 video though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbbean Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Trying to learn. I've never done any "fast draw" competitions, nor seen them. Show me how it's done. Don't worry, Flex. With a little practice and proper instruction, you'll get there someday... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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