counted as disappearing if it appears twice?

[wackodacko]

I was at a match this weekend, and there was a disappearing target (starts with back facing you. When popper is engaged, the target flips to face you, then flips backwards again, then flips to face you, then flips backwards again and stops). It stops showing its back to you. By my understanding of the rules, as long as it STOPS in a postion where there is no A zone (or highest scoring zone) visible, its counted as disappearing.

However, one of the veteran shooters, who is also an RO, said he was 1000000% sure that if the target shows itself MORE THAN ONCE, from hiding, therefore giving you MORE THAN ONE opportunity to shoot at the A zone, it is no longer counted as disappearing and you will incur the FTE penalty and Miss penalties if you cant shoot at it fast enough.

He also gave another example - he said at a previous match he was at, there was a running-man target that slides along a rail and ends hidden behind a barrier. However, along that rail, there are 2 barrels. The target gets hidden while it passes behind the barrels, and then visible again after the barrels. Because of this, you have 2 opportunities to shoot at the A zone, and because there were 2 opportunities, it is not counted as disappearing even if the target eventually rests/stops behind a barrier and is no longer visible.

Did he memorize this from an old rule book or am I missing something?

By the way, everyone on my squad this weekend was able to shoot twice at the "disappearing target" so it wasnt a big deal, but I would like to know what the real deal is, for future reference

Edited December 7, 2010 by wackodacko

[MVZ]

Used to be the rule a couple of years ago.

Now if it disappears at rest there are no miss penalties no matter how many times it appears.

<VZ

[Nik Habicht]

Did he memorize this from an old rule book or am I missing something?

Yes.

The current rules for disappearing targets are:

9.9 Scoring of Moving Targets

9.9.1 Moving scoring targets which present at least a portion of the highest scoring area when at rest following the completion of their designed movement, or which continuously appear and disappear, will always incur failure to shoot at and/or miss penalties (exception see Rule 9.2.4.4). See Appendix B2 or B3 for the percent of target to be presented.

9.9.2 Moving scoring targets, which do not comply with the above criteria are considered disappearing targets and will not incur failure to shoot at or miss penalties except where Rule 9.9.3 applies.

9.9.3 Moving scoring targets will always incur failure to shoot at and miss penalties if a competitor fails to activate the mechanism which initiates the target movement.

9.9.4 Level I matches only - If the written stage briefing prohibits the engagement of certain targets prior to activation, the competitor will incur one procedural penalty per shot fired at such targets prior to operating the activating mechanism, up to the maximum number of available hits (see Rule 2.1.8.5.1).

[CZinSC]

Used to be the rule a couple of years ago.

I can't comment because I've only been doing this since last year.

Now if it disappears at rest there are no miss penalties no matter how many times it appears.

This is 100% correct.

Sounds like your veteran shooter who is an RO needs to brush up on his rules.

Also, you guys need to have a rule book handy. If you don't have one, print it out from the USPSA site. I am an RO and I consult mine at least every other match for a rules clarification. It is extremely difficult to have all of the rules memorized. Your little Blue Book will help you more times than you think.

BTW, if you want the rule(s):

9.9.1 Moving scoring targets which present at least a portion of the highest scoring area when at rest following the completion of their designed movement, or which continuously appear and disappear, will always incur failure to shoot at and/or miss penalties (exception see Rule 9.2.4.4). See Appendix B2 or B3 for the percent of target to be presented.

9.9.2 Moving scoring targets, which do not comply with the above criteria are considered disappearing targets and will not incur failure to shoot at or miss penalties except where Rule 9.9.3 applies.

9.9.3 Moving scoring targets will always incur failure to shoot at and miss penalties if a competitor fails to activate the mechanism which initiates the target movement

[briansea2]

You should have him show you in the book. Better yet get a book and show him he is wrong, then become a RO yourself. It really does help to know the rules.

B

dang you guys are fast

Edited December 7, 2010 by briansea2

[ChuckS]

Did he memorize this from an old rule book

You might say that: the last time that was in print was in the 2001 rule book.

[wackodacko]

Thanks guys! i just had to be sure i interpreted the current rule book correctly. I have the newest edition. i just started shooting, so its the only edition i know

I'll have to put that rulebook in my rangebag. or better yet, on my ipad so i can just "find" the word "disappearing" (or whatever is in question) and not have to flip through pages to find the rule pertaining to it

[spanky]

It might be a good idea to present this info to him so that he is aware for future reference.

[gregoryd]

Try to find a range officers course. It really helps to know what's going on within the rules.

[pjb45]

I was at a match this weekend where the question came up. It is a NPM because it disappeared. Many long time USPSA shooters remember the rules from the time the organization began. Sure they don't always keep up to date. I try to and I was taught a change in the rule I had not seen before i.e., finger in the trigger guard when clearing a jam - as long as a sight picture is maintained.

My point being, even those of us who try to stay current still have lapses. The guy who taught me the rule was a gentleman about it and extremely respectful. I learned two lessons that day!