Update on Open Class M&P Pro

[Whoops!]

Ok, I've been shooting an open M&P pro for a while now and I'll share some experiences here. Number one, I accept no liability if anyone tries this. Number two, with a Jager Compensator and 115 grain bullets, the muzzle rise is unacceptable until about 9.1+ grains of HS6 in 80 degree weather. I don't know what it is about the Stormlake barrel and M&P platform, but the Federal Small Pistol Primers don't start to flatten in my gun until over 9.3 grains of HS6 with brand new, nickel-plated, Starline brass. With reused cases filled with residue, I've experienced flattening as low as 8.8 grains. As you can imagine, out of a threaded 5.7" M&P pro barrel, these bullets are going fast!

In my experience, an aftermarket extractor is needed to keep this gun running at 100%. I had intermittent issues with stock, now the gun just plain runs.

The Burris Fastfire II is garbage on a 9mm major open gun. The adjustment screws broke after not many rounds and left me with a sight I couldn't zero. Then the BME mount screws totally stripped. Then I cut the sight in half with a Dremel tool and threw it away because I was sick of it.

Slide-mounted red dot sights are garbage . . . now this statement took a lot of practical experience for me to come up with, and here's why I'm throwing it out here. They make the slide too heavy. With the red dot mount, I couldn't run the gun on any standard factory pressure minor loads with an 11 pound recoil spring. Without the red dot, but with the comp still mounted, I can run the gun on every standard factory pressure minor load that I have so far tried (Remington UMC, Federal, Ultramax, Winchester, ETC.). Muzzle Rise is also diminished thanks to the lighter slide weight. Now, I realize the slide can be milled for a lighter weight. I recommend that if you want to do that, the red dot still be left off for the benefits of a lighter weight slide. I've read so many reviews where people say the red dot's weight on the slide doesn't make a difference. I'm going to go the other way and say I can't believe how much of a detriment a slide-mounted red dot sight's weight is to the operation of a open class handgun

In summation and in my experience, if your open gun can't accept a frame-mounted red dot, use iron sights. If you want to use an M&P in open, get a new extractor. HS6 is an awesome powder. Women like men who don't talk much.

Forgot to mention, I would bet a shorter threaded barrel wouldn't need as much powder in major to minimize the muzzle rise with the Jager, but the 5.7" pro uses a lot of pressure in the barrel compared to a 4.5".

Also, anyone have any idea how to solidly mount a Jager threaded comp to a 416 Stormlake Barrel for the long haul??? Even high temperature, "permanent" Loctite on every thread available isn't doing it.

Edited September 21, 2010 by Whoops!

[G-ManBart]

Open Division handgun

Edit to add:

A fullsize M&P would have been much better in the muzzle flip category. The Pro and L models already have a pretty heavy slide even before slapping an optic on them, and all that weight causes flip when the slide abruptly comes to a stop at the end of it's travel. R,

Edited September 21, 2010 by G-ManBart

[Whoops!]

I agree, that being said the difference in weight between the two slides is only a little more than an ounce. Lol at open comment.

[DWFAN]

The Trijicon slide ride type sight will hold up to the abuse. And you dont need batteries.

I thought someone had made a c-more mount like the Glock one for the M&P? Carver ?

[zero-down]

The Trijicon slide ride type sight will hold up to the abuse. And you dont need batteries.

I thought someone had made a c-more mount like the Glock one for the M&P? Carver ?

Nope, no frame mounts yet for the M&P. The design of the frame and placement of the take down lever, pins, etc, don't lend themselves nicely to a mount like that.

Whoops - I have to be honest, I'm surprised you are having so many issues. How many rounds have you put through the gun? With the exception of some spring fiddling, I've had no issues in my full size open. I would guestimate that I'm probably a little over 1k mark with mine. It only takes 8.6gr of HS6 w/ a 115 to make major in the shorty so I haven't seen any flatting or pressure signs yet. You may want to consider going to a smaller comp like a carver to shed some front end weight. You'll have less drag to deal with and it may solve some of the other issues (like make up for the dot). I have the short carver comp myself (3 ports top, 2 each side) and although muzzle flip is there, it isn't too horrible.

As for attaching the comp, I added a set screw on the top to help hold it in place. Drill the comp on the barrel so you can get a little dimple in the barrel. Loc-tite both the screw and the threads and set it for 24 hours. It should hold just fine.

[Braxton1]

Then I cut the sight in half with a Dremel tool and threw it away because I was sick of it.

Also, anyone have any idea how to solidly mount a Jager threaded comp to a 416 Stormlake Barrel for the long haul??? Even high temperature, "permanent" Loctite on every thread available isn't doing it.

WOW!!! I have a kindred spirit in the gun world. There is a range in South Alabama that has a Tasco PDP-2 and a couple of mags located on the back side of some berms. However, I do like the idea of "Dremel-tooling-to-death" a bad sight. It seems so much more "personal" than just chunking it over a berm. I will have to try that myself. Sounds therapeutic...

For Loc-Tite: What specific formulation are you using? 271 (Red) is the strongest formulation that you can generally find in Home Depot, Lowe's, or AutoZone. 640 (Green) is the BOMB for attaching comps. Les Baer told me once that there is even a stronger formulation (Black-don't know the number) that is supposedly "marine-grade", but I've never had to go there.

[DWFAN]

WOW!!! I have a kindred spirit in the gun world. There is a range in South Alabama that has a Tasco PDP-2 and a couple of mags located on the back side of some berms. However, I do like the idea of "Dremel-tooling-to-death" a bad sight. It seems so much more "personal" than just chunking it over a berm. I will have to try that myself. Sounds therapeutic...

[Whoops!]

I'll have to try Green. Myne is high temperature red, I think I bought it from an automotive store. The set screw on top makes a lot of sense, thanks for the idea.

That Dremel sawed right through that metal sight and screw like butter. It was satisfying.

As for issues, I haven't really had any with the platform itself other than the extractor. The extractor just caused an occasional jam.

With regards to muzzle flip, I have lately become very particular about how a gun should perform. It should settle with my grip as fast as I can pull the trigger and I can pull the trigger pretty fast.

[G-ManBart]

I agree, that being said the difference in weight between the two slides is only a little more than an ounce. Lol at open comment.

You've weighed both? An ounce can make a pretty big difference in the grand scheme of things.

You know, there is that silly old edit function...for some reason when I see "Open Class or Limited Class" my first thought is "goober alert".

How come nobody screws it up and say "I'm a C Division" shooter?

[diehli]

How come nobody screws it up and say "I'm a C Division" shooter?

Give it time... give it time....

[ChuckS]

How come nobody screws it up and say "I'm a C Division" shooter?

They have to shoot 4 qualifiers first...

[Whoops!]

Lol, I don't know, I just like the way open class sounds I guess. I don't tend to be bothered by little things like that. For the record, I also say C class. I just don't usually use the word division in my life unless I'm talking about math.

Edited September 21, 2010 by Whoops!

[2alpha]

If you really really never plan to remove it, silver solder in paste form will keep your compensator on. Brownells sells it. I'm really disturbed to hear that slide mounted red dots are garbage for open guns.

[Whoops!]

Wait now, I'm not saying it's fact, I'm just saying in my opinion they are. Some people will continue to love them I'm sure. In my limited experience, they just add too much weight to the recoiling assembly.

Silver solder... good to know

Edited September 21, 2010 by Whoops!

[diehli]

That's like a function of the M&P's design (slide weight, recoil spring weight, striker spring weight, etc.) more than the sights themselves.

[Singlestack]

For Loc-Tite: What specific formulation are you using? 271 (Red) is the strongest formulation that you can generally find in Home Depot, Lowe's, or AutoZone. 640 (Green) is the BOMB for attaching comps. Les Baer told me once that there is even a stronger formulation (Black-don't know the number) that is supposedly "marine-grade", but I've never had to go there.

It's called Black Max. I have used it and it is pretty much permanent.

[zero-down]

I'm really disturbed to hear that slide mounted red dots are garbage for open guns.

I've been using a JPoint and have run into no issues. The dot jumps a bunch but its worked 100% so far.

[Whoops!]

That's my main issue with them, too much muzzle flip even when properly springed.

[GentlemanJim]

For Loc-Tite: What specific formulation are you using? 271 (Red) is the strongest formulation that you can generally find in Home Depot, Lowe's, or AutoZone. 640 (Green) is the BOMB for attaching comps. Les Baer told me once that there is even a stronger formulation (Black-don't know the number) that is supposedly "marine-grade", but I've never had to go there.

It's called Black Max. I have used it and it is pretty much permanent.

Tough stuff...about a ten second open time, get it where you want it...FAST

Jim

[fiddler]

Women like men who don't talk much.

Everyone likes men who don't talk much. I don't know about women who don't talk much, I've honestly never met one.

[Carmine]

Do you have any pictures of your fine creation?

Ciao.

[Whoops!]

Not while I'm at work. Check out my topic history and one of my earlier topics has pictures of when it still had the dot on the slide.

[lcs]

If you really really never plan to remove it, silver solder in paste form will keep your compensator on. Brownells sells it. I'm really disturbed to hear that slide mounted red dots are garbage for open guns.

Docter red dot (bullet proofed) are the way to go, but not one slide mounted red dot will last as long as a c-more. Put thousands on a slide mounted Dr.