nwb01 Posted March 27, 2012 Author Share Posted March 27, 2012 (edited) Oy. I asked "how to fix this" folks. That is why I brought the thread back up. Stick with one method and SPECIFICALLY call it out in the PRINTED RULEBOOK.. Edited March 27, 2012 by nwb01 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Flex, here's one suggestion -- and there are potential problems: Lay gauge on its back. Lay magazine on top of opening in gauge. If the magazine enters the gauge (and/or comes close to bottoming out) hand pressure may be used to determine if the magazine will touch the pads..... Probably need to redesign the gauge to take into account the taller basepads seen on non-1911/2011 mags, esp. on the 171.25 side.... The devil's going to be in the details.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Pledger Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 The RULE does not allow for compression of the magazine. Any compression of the magazine is a violation of the rule I must have missed that rule. Can you post it here? If you look at the image posted, you see the following: The magazine is placed vertically upright on a flat surface, with the measurement taken from the flat surface upwards to the rear of the feed-lips, as illustrated. Only straight, rigid magazines are permitted (i.e. flexible, drum, "J", "L", "T" or similar shape magazines are prohibited). Cheers .... Yes, but that text you are referring to is in the IPSC rulebook. The USPSA rulebook does not contain that text. It only has the illustration. So Mark's question still stands: Which rule states that compression is not allowed? Skydiver, Yes I realise that is from the IPSC Rulebook, but in one post Flexmoney, mentioned that USPSA was going or looking at the same wording as IPSC. Which is why I mentioned the new ruling and picture. Another reason also is, at the next WS at Frostproof, thats how IPSC / IROA will measure the magazines, so if you are over 170 the magazines will be rejected. Cheers .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L2450 Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 I just don't get it. You place the magazine in the gauge, you hold the magazine with enough force to keep it in place in the gauge. You check to see that there is no space above the two pads on the gauge where the magazine should be touching. If this really needs directions in the rulebook, then we are in sad shape. I have to believe that the gauge was created as a quick and sure method to test magazines. Using a steel ruler to perform this test would take much longer and really back up the chronograph stage. But, I am willing to bet that is what some of you want so the mag check is thrown out. Things to do to help you pass the mag gauge test. Remove any grip tape from the back 1/2" of the basepad. Chamfer the back corner of the mag behind the feed lips. Test your mags in a gauge before the match. Don't rely on the manufacturers claim that his basepads will fit the gauge. Magazines are not made to 0.001" tolerances. I have 9 SV mags and only two of them will pass the gauge with a Dawson +1 SNL basepad. Bud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 I just don't get it. You place the magazine in the gauge, you hold the magazine with enough force to keep it in place in the gauge. You check to see that there is no space above the two pads on the gauge where the magazine should be touching. If this really needs directions in the rulebook, then we are in sad shape. I have to believe that the gauge was created as a quick and sure method to test magazines. Using a steel ruler to perform this test would take much longer and really back up the chronograph stage. But, I am willing to bet that is what some of you want so the mag check is thrown out. Things to do to help you pass the mag gauge test. Remove any grip tape from the back 1/2" of the basepad. Chamfer the back corner of the mag behind the feed lips. Test your mags in a gauge before the match. Don't rely on the manufacturers claim that his basepads will fit the gauge. Magazines are not made to 0.001" tolerances. I have 9 SV mags and only two of them will pass the gauge with a Dawson +1 SNL basepad. Bud Yes, the gauge is supposed to make it all very simple. But what if the mag's basepad doesn't fit into the cut out of gauge? Break out the file and file out that section of the gauge? Or just tell the shooter: "Sorry, we only recognize S_I style magazines for Limited and Open, since you shoot a Glock, you're shooting for no score." And how do you quantify "enough force to keep it in place"? Is it enough force to keep it in place with the back of the magazine touching the pads in the gauge? Or is it enough force to keep it in place that the mag doesn't fall out if the mag and gauge are held with the long axis going vertical? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nwb01 Posted March 29, 2012 Author Share Posted March 29, 2012 I just don't get it. You place the magazine in the gauge, you hold the magazine with enough force to keep it in place in the gauge. You check to see that there is no space above the two pads on the gauge where the magazine should be touching. If this really needs directions in the rulebook, then we are in sad shape. I have to believe that the gauge was created as a quick and sure method to test magazines. Using a steel ruler to perform this test would take much longer and really back up the chronograph stage. But, I am willing to bet that is what some of you want so the mag check is thrown out. Things to do to help you pass the mag gauge test. Remove any grip tape from the back 1/2" of the basepad. Chamfer the back corner of the mag behind the feed lips. Test your mags in a gauge before the match. Don't rely on the manufacturers claim that his basepads will fit the gauge. Magazines are not made to 0.001" tolerances. I have 9 SV mags and only two of them will pass the gauge with a Dawson +1 SNL basepad. Bud And how do you quantify "enough force to keep it in place"? Is it enough force to keep it in place with the back of the magazine touching the pads in the gauge? Or is it enough force to keep it in place that the mag doesn't fall out if the mag and gauge are held with the long axis going vertical? Hence the very reason I started this thread !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L2450 Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 I just don't get it. You place the magazine in the gauge, you hold the magazine with enough force to keep it in place in the gauge. You check to see that there is no space above the two pads on the gauge where the magazine should be touching. If this really needs directions in the rulebook, then we are in sad shape. I have to believe that the gauge was created as a quick and sure method to test magazines. Using a steel ruler to perform this test would take much longer and really back up the chronograph stage. But, I am willing to bet that is what some of you want so the mag check is thrown out. Things to do to help you pass the mag gauge test. Remove any grip tape from the back 1/2" of the basepad. Chamfer the back corner of the mag behind the feed lips. Test your mags in a gauge before the match. Don't rely on the manufacturers claim that his basepads will fit the gauge. Magazines are not made to 0.001" tolerances. I have 9 SV mags and only two of them will pass the gauge with a Dawson +1 SNL basepad. Bud And how do you quantify "enough force to keep it in place"? Is it enough force to keep it in place with the back of the magazine touching the pads in the gauge? Or is it enough force to keep it in place that the mag doesn't fall out if the mag and gauge are held with the long axis going vertical? Hence the very reason I started this thread !!! Enough force to keep the magazine on top of the gauge while holding it up to a light to see if the pads are in contact with the magazine. Basically, very little force. I like it even better when I can just slide the mag up and down in the gauge. The gauge is made oversized, so a 'legal' magazine should fit in just by setting it on the gauge. As for the Glock basepads, I have not seen any that did not fit in the gauge. What model Glock magazines have this need for extra tall basepads? Bud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z40acp Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Flex, the gauge is needed, but needs to be modified to clear all the base pads. "Enough force" is different from one person to the next. Perhaps they could add an attachment to the gauge to exert a specified spring pressure on the middle of the tube. And of course there will have to be a procedure written. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 As for the Glock basepads, I have not seen any that did not fit in the gauge. What model Glock magazines have this need for extra tall basepads? Bud Any of the full size Glock mags turned into 170s...... The 140 side of the gauge is not a problem, as the Glock pads are not appreciably different in size to 2011/para/caspian pads.... On the 170 side though, because longer tubes are available for the 2011 type guns, the cut out for the pad is the same size. The Glock mags -- available in one size only -- need a longer pad, which is available from Taylor Freelance. That pad, which is held on with a retention plate at the back of the tube/pad junction is taller than the cutout, so the magazine can't sit flush to touch the pads, even if it fits in length. To put that another way, if I add one of those pads to a Glock 26 mag (the short, stubby, mini ten-rounder) it still won't sit flush -- because the pad's too long.... I'm using Glock as one example. I would assume that M&Ps, and possible some other guns would have the same/similar problems.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nwb01 Posted March 29, 2012 Author Share Posted March 29, 2012 I just don't get it. You place the magazine in the gauge, you hold the magazine with enough force to keep it in place in the gauge. You check to see that there is no space above the two pads on the gauge where the magazine should be touching. If this really needs directions in the rulebook, then we are in sad shape. I have to believe that the gauge was created as a quick and sure method to test magazines. Using a steel ruler to perform this test would take much longer and really back up the chronograph stage. But, I am willing to bet that is what some of you want so the mag check is thrown out. Things to do to help you pass the mag gauge test. Remove any grip tape from the back 1/2" of the basepad. Chamfer the back corner of the mag behind the feed lips. Test your mags in a gauge before the match. Don't rely on the manufacturers claim that his basepads will fit the gauge. Magazines are not made to 0.001" tolerances. I have 9 SV mags and only two of them will pass the gauge with a Dawson +1 SNL basepad. Bud And how do you quantify "enough force to keep it in place"? Is it enough force to keep it in place with the back of the magazine touching the pads in the gauge? Or is it enough force to keep it in place that the mag doesn't fall out if the mag and gauge are held with the long axis going vertical? Hence the very reason I started this thread !!! Enough force to keep the magazine on top of the gauge while holding it up to a light to see if the pads are in contact with the magazine. Basically, very little force. I like it even better when I can just slide the mag up and down in the gauge. The gauge is made oversized, so a 'legal' magazine should fit in just by setting it on the gauge. As for the Glock basepads, I have not seen any that did not fit in the gauge. What model Glock magazines have this need for extra tall basepads? Bud Once again, your "idea" of how to measure magazines is not in the RULEBOOK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 The fact that we have a basepad available that is named SNL* shows, I think, that we need this cleared up. (* SNL = Sometimes Not Legal) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L2450 Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 The fact that we have a basepad available that is named SNL* shows, I think, that we need this cleared up. (* SNL = Sometimes Not Legal) Kyle, Since you are now the Area 5 Director, have you brought this matter to the attention of the Director of NROI? John is noticeably absent on this forum. As for the SNL, that has more to do with the fact that magazines are not made to exacting tolerances. As I stated earlier, I have two mags that are on the short side and fit the gauge with SNL basepads. As for the Glock big stick mags. For some strange reason, I never see those anywhere near the Chronograph. Must be afraid of infrared light or something. Bud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgkeller Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 Make the max 28 rounds. And save us all a lot of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 Since there's no new information here, and it's gotten so boring that WTG has taken to leveling baseless claims of treachery against USPSA, I'll button this up for now. If anyone gets any new information from USPSA on a possible fix for this, please PM a Moderator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 re-opened The BOD is working on new wording here. We plan to put it out for comment, before it goes live. (will get it posted soon) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nwb01 Posted July 1, 2012 Author Share Posted July 1, 2012 Thanks Kyle !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Thanks Kyle !! Thank Harry, and the BOARD. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Can you give us a hint of the content in general? Will the NROI ruling become the primary text and the ruler measurement currently in the rulebook be obsoleted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vluc Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 (edited) Thanks Kyle !! Thank Harry, and the BOARD. :-) Harry, you tricky devil! Edited July 3, 2012 by vluc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Can you give us a hint of the content in general? I can, but I won't. No sense in me putting something out that might have a comma in the wrong place. It will be posted shortly. Will the NROI ruling become the primary text and the ruler measurement currently in the rulebook be obsoleted? There is no ruling as of yet. The wording was batted around at the Board meeting on Saturday, then again on Sunday. The Board decided to get some more eyeballs (membership feedback) on the wording before making it law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgkeller Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 We anxiously await Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Can you give us a hint of the content in general? I can, but I won't. No sense in me putting something out that might have a comma in the wrong place. It will be posted shortly. Will the NROI ruling become the primary text and the ruler measurement currently in the rulebook be obsoleted? There is no ruling as of yet. The wording was batted around at the Board meeting on Saturday, then again on Sunday. The Board decided to get some more eyeballs (membership feedback) on the wording before making it law. By "It will be posted shortly" do you mean it will be posted shortly to "get some more eyeballs"? Or do you mean it will be posted shortly as in NROI Ruling set in stone? Or posted shortly something between the two extremes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L2450 Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Kyle, What are the chances that this new ruling will be finalized in time for Area 8 (August 9-12)? Bud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 I would love to see them go to 142 and 172 or 21 rds and 30 rds whichever is easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAB33 Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 (edited) Here is how they do it at the highest level(World Shoot), a $3 tape measure. Edited July 7, 2012 by CAB33 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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