Could this be the Holly Grail of Cartridge cleaning ?

[Timg]

appreciate all the positive posts. seems like a lot of grumpy people on this board. I seemed to really have ruffled some feathers here. the corn cob method seems very coveted.

yep, not going for bling shine, or necessarily clean inside, just experimenting and asking for advice and nothing more.

sent an email to Resolve to see if they can tell me if it will harm brass. also for a list of ingredients, worth a shot.

I am in AZ so insides drying only takes a few minutes. only have cleaned a few this way. they run fine through the press. also does not seem to be any residue on them at all either. going to try a dozen at the range and see if there are any feed problems. not a big test lot but want to make sure I'm not creating any damage to anything by using this chemical.

i also only have the small Dillion case cleaner so thats why it takes a little longer for me. pros and cons to all methods for sure. anyone can make an argument for ANY method. just like everything in life. so if you object to this thread maybe there is another one that you will find more to your liking.

[sigsauerfan]

sorry pics didnt attached correctly.

here are the other two

woaw. impressing. as grumpy pointed it doesn't make accuracy better, but woaw those brass are very clean inside out.

i will try that. if it save time, i'll use this trick for sure.....and if you're interested in a tumbler let me know lol.

[GrumpyOne]

Clean your brass however you want, it's your brass. Most here are more about saving money to shoot, not time, as we shoot many thousands of rounds a year. A ten dollar bag of crushed walnut shell will last me over a year, cleaning upwards of 20,000 cases. How much resolve will it take to clean that many? And what would be the cost?

As for your "great deals" on brass primers, and such, I doubt that you got a better bargain than many of the board members prices as most of the members buy in major bulk (most buy primers by the tens of thousands and bullets by the cases, and powder by the biggest jugs thay can find, to keep the lot consistent). I've got 25,000 primers at home and another 50,000 on backorder....

All I'm saying is that you are possibly spending more time putting the brass in the cleaner, mixing the solution, taking the brass out, drying it off, etc...All the while, you have to be there, to continue the process. Those of us using tumblers set it and forget it.

And as for grumpy people (I assume that this comment was aimed at me ), you seem to have quite the streak yourself....Five posts and how many members have you irritated?

Lighten up. This board is about sharing information, whether it be good or bad. There is a lot of joking around, jabs at each other, poking fun, etc., so getting bent outta shape about someone having an honest opinion is uncalled for.

But I digress....Your brass looks nice, it's shiny pretty....But IMO, get a bigger tumbler and start multi-tasking.

Edited August 31, 2010 by GrumpyOne

[Flexmoney]

I think that the initial post has gotten lost in a "my ways is better than your way" debate.

Yes, it has. Weird. We tell the new guy "this isn't that kind of forum", then we dog pile on him?

New guy, your second post was a bit out of line (that is what ruffled the feathers). So were some of the responses you got. Our experienced members ought to know better... especially in the BEginner's Forum.

Brian Forum is a place to share and discuss.

- Forum Administrator

[Merlin Orr]

"Children, Children...Your teenagers now so act like adults....."

My 10th grade English teacher, Granny Griggs.....

[Flexmoney]

OK...off my soapbox...

- What you have accomplished is some clearly shiny brass.

- Your do have a known and visible issue (the 1 of 10 with the discoloration).

- There is a valid fear of putting some chemicals on brass. We need our brass to behave is a certain way. We know some chemical short cuts can interfer with that.

- As many experienced reloaders here have noted, the time savings can be offset by the process (set it and forget it). I run mine on a cheap lamp timer.

[Ronnie j]

If the carpet cleaner used claims to remove juice,koolaid or other colored type stains its got ammonia in it. Which from what I understand is caustic to brass. YMMV

[J-Ho]

"Children, Children...Your teenagers now so act like adults....."

My 10th grade English teacher, Granny Griggs.....

Merlin,

Your 10th grade English teacher needs to slap you upside the head.

[Treym7]

Just an observation. I fly R/C airplanes and have come across some nasty engines from when people leave them put up with fuel in them. The methanol, nitro, and namely the Castor oil in the fuel really gum up the engine. Ihad come across a sweet little Saito four stroke for cheap. It was froze up solid from the gum residue. The secret to get these engines clean? Ethelyne Glycol! Put antifreeze in a crock pot and simmer the little engine for about four hours (outside on the deck, never indoors!) and it looks like brand new. Now these engines are ABC or Aluminum, BRASS, Copper construction. There is no damage to them.

With what someone posted about the ingrediants in the carpet cleaner, namely the propylene glycol, I assume it's the same cleaning reaction with the brass as when I clean these engines. Now I am not a chemist, but I can see where this would work well. Still have to make sure there is no Ammonia in the cleaner!

Trey

[Sarge]

the corn cob method seems very coveted.

Corn cob......Corn cob...... Corn cob..... :bow:

[njl]

Crushed walnut works well (much faster / more effective at cleaning dirty brass than corn cob...at least the big crap from Wal-Mart...I haven't tried the finer stuff from Grainger yet) and I don't have to worry about what's in it and whether it'll attack the brass. My tumbler handles about 1000 9mm at a time...and I do other things while it's running.

[G-ManBart]

Crushed walnut works well (much faster / more effective at cleaning dirty brass than corn cob...at least the big crap from Wal-Mart...I haven't tried the finer stuff from Grainger yet) and I don't have to worry about what's in it and whether it'll attack the brass. My tumbler handles about 1000 9mm at a time...and I do other things while it's running.

Yep, crushed walnut is definitely faster. I get a big (30# or so) bag from Petsmart (it's in the small animal section) for something like $25 and it lasts for ages. R,

[smokshwn]

For those of you who like to tumble their brass for hours, that's great. Anyone who comes up with a new solution to cleaning brass in less time should be commended. I will be giving it a try. If it works for me, I will be using it.

Bshooter.

I guess I must be missing something, could someone please explain the time savings with the new process versus the time it takes to tumble?

I think the reason the responses in this thread are so strong is because unlike many personal preference subjects that are discussed here, this one is largely an objective endeavor.

Time savings, unknown potential for brass damage, and cost are not opinions like spring rates, dot track, and scope reticle preferences. They are measurable entities. In several discussions about the different techniques or methods to shoot a stage we often respond with "what does the timer tell you". In essence we attempt to remove the opinion over a technique and replace it with objective evidence. In the scenario presented by the OP, an opinion was expressed that simply did not offer an advantage over the objective evidence already available and well known on the subject.

Edited August 31, 2010 by smokshwn

[Worriedman]

Being somewhat anal about my brass, I have settled on useing stainless steel cut wire media, dishwashing detergent, hot water and my home built ball mill. I graduated from the Thumblers tumbler simply becuase they did not make a model that will handle the case volume I desired.

I can do a 1000 .223 cases at once. I load it and let it run overnight, brass is clean, inside and out, as well as the primer pockets. There is some who think the spent primer residue that gets blasted down the bore with succesive use aids in throat erosion, I no longer have that niggling worry.

Results.

[J-Ho]

Let see that same set up but next time use a 55 gal drum for the tumbler. Then it will be impressive. ;-)

[Graham Smith]

There is a valid fear of putting some chemicals on brass.

Quite true, which is why I'm reluctant to try anything other than stuff I know works. I know that a little Simple Green in water cleans most of the crud off range brass and the surfactant that you get for ultrasonic cleaners is inert, beyond that, it's read the ingredient list and break out the chemistry manual.

I'm one of the people with a noise problem. What I really need to do is build a sound dampening enclosure for my tumbler - which I will do if I can ever get the time to set up the new reloading area <sigh>. But I also reload .223 and tumbling doesn't do quite as good a job on those narrow neck cartridges so I decided to try an ultra sonic cleaner. They don't come out as shiny on the outside, but a fair amount of gunk comes out of the inside if I stack them neck down and run them through for a few minutes.

Anyway, I don't want to prolong this debate because tumbling is a tried and tested method that just plain works, full stop. But for rifle cases, I think that ultrasonic cleaning has some real potential. Particularly for people who load small batches. I'd love to find some solution that would safely clean my cases back to bright shiny brass in 5 minutes.

Now for the caveats...

--I have a bottle of Resolve Carpet Cleaner at home that has a fabric protector (Teflon) in it but I didn't see that in the list of chemicals for Resolve. I'm guessing that there's more than one type of Resolve and I'm pretty sure I don't I want Teflon on my cases.

--Having a few discolored cases in a batch may mean nothing but it may mean a lot. It all depends on why they discolored. This is where it gets complicated and the "scientific method" kicks in. These cases are different in some way. It's either something that is in/on them that's not on the others or something that's not there.

----New brass typically has some kind of finish, it's possible that if the finish is worn, the underlying brass will be discolored - this is not good because it means that the cleaner and the brass are reacting.

----It may be that some brass has something on it that is reacting with the cleaner or that some (cheap) brass has impurities that are reacting. This might actually be good because it may mean that this brass needs to go into the recycle bin.

Here is a simple test. Take some of the bright shiny brass from the first batch and rough it up well with sand paper to get rid of any coating, then run it through the cleaner several times. If it discolors, then that's pretty much it for the cleaner. If it doesn't then have a good look at the discolored cases and see if they are all the same head stamp or if they appear to have some kind of residue.

Disclaimer: I'm not a chemist but I do have a minor in chemistry and an extensive background in laboratory chemistry. But that was a long time ago in a world far, far, away.

Edited August 31, 2010 by Graham Smith

[DWFAN]

Will the solution work as well being used in something other than an Ultrasonic ? Say a bucket and hand agitating ?

Edited August 31, 2010 by DWFAN

[Timg]

Graham Smith: great idea I'll try it.

DWFAN: yes works fine in a bucket too. almost same result.

Resolve emailed me back the ingredients of the product. its Resolve Triple Action.

[njl]

I still wouldn't use that stuff.

Have a look at http://kensbrass.com/damagedbrass.html

I don't know if citric acid will leach out the zinc, but I'd also be worried about the peroxide attacking the copper.

If you want to wash the brass, I'd stick to mild detergent and hot water.

Your experiment reminds me of when we were kids collecting old US coins. One day we decided to start trying various things to see if we could make old dull pennies shiny again. We tried just about every household cleanser we could get our hands on. Some of them seemed to work (I don't remember which), but days later, the cleaned up pennies looked like crap. At one point we even mixed cleaners containing ammonia and bleach (we were young and didn't know better) and made "toxic smoke".

Without a background in chemistry, the odds of you stumbling on a new method to chemically clean brass safely and effectively are slim. The odds of you discovering ways to damage brass using compounds not intended for brass cleaning are much better.

[walsh]

shiney doesnt make it go straighter? wow good to know, thx.

well why the hurry, I can clean cartridges in 5 minutes now instead of dragging it out for hours and get better results and dont need cob or a vibrator, seperator, etc. sorry didnt know you had so much time to kill. wow guess I'll keep my finds to myself. got a great deal on brass, bullets, 231 and primers the other day too, all 40% off. But you probably will blast me for that too so I'll keep it to myself.

Cool! I'll follow this thread and I hope you'll post some follow-ups as to number of reloads and such in the event there's some yet unknown "Law of Unintended Consequences" at work. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

As to the "critique", I almost never exercise, in person, that old adage, "if you haven't anything good to say, then don't say anything". It comes with being a ball breaker at heart. But seeing how one smartypants can crap all over a gun thread, I understand your angst. I was raising money for deployed Marines through my Marine Corps League and someone posted some comment asking why the hell we needed to ship anything and didn't get all they need from Uncle Sam who sent them there? That was so nice to see right after my detailed post with pictures to try to help the troops. Over 850 people read the request for just $5 and I had two donations...AND IN A GUN FORUM (not this one). If all the experts would understand that they were born with little knowledge of anything, then perhaps they could refrain from making a simple question and/or suggestion by someone into a "look...mine's bigger than yours".

So please do let us know how it all works out for you. Maybe you can clean 1/4 of your brass fired the old-fashioned way and see if there is a difference between the two as you reload.

Good luck, and thanks!

Walsh

[Flexmoney]

Enough with the editorials. Please stick with the topic and leave the back and forth out.

Thanks,

Kyle F.

Forum Administrator

[98sr20ve]

not worried about shine just want to get the cartridges clean without wasting a bunch of time. appreciate all the helpful comments; thats why I posted my results so I could get some input from the vets of reloading. of course I dont want to damage them. I put 150 45's in the ultrasonic for 5 min. rinse well, tumble around on a big towel for 1 min. and they are dry and clean. saves 1 hour 54 minutes compared to corn cob. If i had time to waste I guess I wouldnt have bought a progress press either. I prefer spending my time shooting rather than cleaning and reloading.

look forward to some assesment by the chemists of the board.

Just to be safe you should know those cases are not dry inside and not dry around the primer pocket. I have tried the liqued method of cleaning and it's not as easy in my book. BUT, if you like the cases that clean then a quick tumble in a tumbler does dry the inside really well in my dry climate. After that I just throw them in my drawer. I don't get to use them the same day so they are dry when I actually use them.

One concern. Really clean cases can stick on the expander of the Dillon powder measure. If your press runs rough on the return stroke of the handle then your cases may be too clean.

[Worriedman]

Let see that same set up but next time use a 55 gal drum for the tumbler. Then it will be impressive. ;-)

I am actually looking at using a plastic drum mortar mixer with the metal "fins" removed and a set of rubber bumpers installed in lieu of. I figure I could do 5K at a time that way, and am looking at designing an interior slotted container that would allow me to power separate the media after the cleaning cycle. Pour out the media/brass into a tub, rinse the mixture, insert the separator and pour the mixture back in with clean water and a little soap, and run till the cut wire is out of all the cases under power.

[ChiefGuns]

I heard some people talking about using Nu-Finish Car wax. I tried it, cleans good. I use a small amount (1 table spoon), with crushed walnut, to clean 9mm and .40 cal in a Dillon CV-500. I’m not looking for shiny brass. Just want it to re-size and shoot. Anyone tried this? Anyone know if the Nu-Finish will harm the brass?

[Flexmoney]

I heard some people talking about using Nu-Finish Car wax. I tried it, cleans good. I use a small amount (1 table spoon), with crushed walnut, to clean 9mm and .40 cal in a Dillon CV-500. I'm not looking for shiny brass. Just want it to re-size and shoot. Anyone tried this? Anyone know if the Nu-Finish will harm the brass?

Nu-Finish had been tried and used by a number of experienced reloaders, as I recall. Try the search page. There is information on it.