Rifle/Pistol Matches

[Kevin Spencer]

I would like to see a rifle/pistol match. I am not into shooting Shotguns, I just don't like them. I would like to see more of a carbine match, using shorter distances and maybe smaller targets. In Law Enforcement, the average distance that a rifle is used at is @ 75 yards. I haven't heard what the average distance is in the sand, but I would not be surprised if there is a large percentage under 100 yards.

If rifle/pistol matches ever become a reality, you would probably start seeing a lot of 9mm start coming out.

[GuyC]

Plus one on a rifle pistol match. I do not have a shotgun and know alot of guys that would shoot 3 gun but have no shotgun. I could probably name 10 guys that don't shoot uspsa but would show up to a rifle pistol match.

[DanielW]

I haven't heard what the average distance is in the sand, but I would not be surprised if there is a large percentage under 100 yards.

Actually in Afghan it trends towards (sometimes much) longer ranges.

Curious as to why you would prefer to see short distance only type matches? I enjoy the variety of both close/long range stuff; both very different but equally useful skill sets, why not use 'em both?

[mpeltier]

DanielW

Yes it is the Hernando matches I am refering to. Come on out to our next one and introduce yourself. It is a 3-gun match on Oct 9th. If you need directions or any other info, PM me and I will get it to you ASAP.

5 stages, ranges out to 200yds and a shoothouse. (150-200rds ammo)

Edited September 30, 2010 by mpeltier

[Kevin Spencer]

I haven't heard what the average distance is in the sand, but I would not be surprised if there is a large percentage under 100 yards.

Actually in Afghan it trends towards (sometimes much) longer ranges.

Curious as to why you would prefer to see short distance only type matches? I enjoy the variety of both close/long range stuff; both very different but equally useful skill sets, why not use 'em both?

I would not want to eliminate 3 gun matches, perhaps we could leave the 3 gun as is, with the longer ranges. Then with a rifle/pistol match have them using shorter ranges and allowing 9 mm carbines. There are more ranges with less than 100 yard bays, than those with 200 yds or greater. This would allow more clubs to be involved in rifle/pistol matches. Because of the shorter ranges available, if you used smaller targets, you could still make it challenging for the rifles.

[SinistralRifleman]

Short range stages can be challenging by adding awkward positions, physical elements, reduced sized targets, support side shooting

[DanielW]

Kevin - got it, very good point about the pistol caliber carbines too; I have one and would be nice to have a use for it. Seems to me there is quite a lot of scope left for all sorts of offshoots, not just pistol/rifle matches!

[badchad]

I'd go a step further and advocate one-gun only matches - just rifle or just shotgun (we have lots of "just pistol" already of course). Less equipment to schlep, lower cost of entry, not constantly changing wardrobe etc. However, the last time I spoke in favor of this, the glitterati here drowned me out with cries of "booooooorrriiiiinnnggggg".

Count me in for one-gun. I'm sure it's part my ADD but readying 3 guns to shoot on the same day is just more than I care to worry about, not to mention load in and out of my truck. But if you ask me I think 3-gun is cool as hell and I love M2 and JP15. But as much as I want to shoot them (and I shoot a lot of matches) when the monthly Rio rifle-shotgun match rolls around each month I just say "screw it" and don't go. If it were rifle only I think I would make time for it, and same for shotgun.

I think it would make for an interesting poll. I tend to complain outloud, and I know others have agreed with me.

[StealthyBlagga]

...when the monthly Rio rifle-shotgun match rolls around each month I just say "screw it" and don't go. If it were rifle only I think I would make time for it, and same for shotgun...

Chad

Try to come to the Rio Salado rifle-shotgun match on October 9th; we are going to make it very light on shotgun and in fact the whole match can be shot with rifle and pistol only (for all those folks who don't yet have a shotgun). I guarantee you'll have fun, and with winter hours you will have an extra hour to load the truck .

[wsimpso1]

I have shot USPSA Three Gun and Multi-Gun, Outlaw Three Gun, ACTS, USPSA Pistol and IDPA. I have fully competitive rifle, shotgun, and pistols. Quite frankly, the shotgun can hang... One of the best matches I have ever attended was the NY state USPSA rifle match. I am all for one-gun rifle and primarily rifle with some pistol thrown in.

Right now, my work life requires weekday lodging, so I don't get enough time at home. I am only shooting a couple IDPA matches a month, as they only suck up a morning here and there. Now if someone had a carbine match that only took four hours, I would be all over that, and the pistols would sit unused...

So how about it? More rifle matches or rifle/pistol matches?

Billski

[badchad]

Chad

Try to come to the Rio Salado rifle-shotgun match on October 9th; we are going to make it very light on shotgun and in fact the whole match can be shot with rifle and pistol only (for all those folks who don't yet have a shotgun). I guarantee you'll have fun, and with winter hours you will have an extra hour to load the truck .

But I don't want to shoot 2 guns, I just want to shoot one. If I have to pack up two guns it might as well be my shotgun. I've been thinking more about this one gun concept. If it were regular the rifle match might draw some from the high power group who don't want to shoot pistol or shotgun. A shotgun only match might draw from the sporting clays group that might not want to shoot pistol or rifle. As it is now, I have no shortage of pistol matches and have started doing some sporting clays and 10 meter air rifle for fun, I just don't want to mess with/manage all 3 or even 2 at a time. I just always forget something. Plus, and maybe it's just me but I find the ability to set down one gun on safe, and pick up another to be a highly over-rated skill set.

[StealthyBlagga]

Chad

Try to come to the Rio Salado rifle-shotgun match on October 9th; we are going to make it very light on shotgun and in fact the whole match can be shot with rifle and pistol only (for all those folks who don't yet have a shotgun). I guarantee you'll have fun, and with winter hours you will have an extra hour to load the truck .

But I don't want to shoot 2 guns, I just want to shoot one. If I have to pack up two guns it might as well be my shotgun. I've been thinking more about this one gun concept. If it were regular the rifle match might draw some from the high power group who don't want to shoot pistol or shotgun. A shotgun only match might draw from the sporting clays group that might not want to shoot pistol or rifle. As it is now, I have no shortage of pistol matches and have started doing some sporting clays and 10 meter air rifle for fun, I just don't want to mess with/manage all 3 or even 2 at a time. I just always forget something. Plus, and maybe it's just me but I find the ability to set down one gun on safe, and pick up another to be a highly over-rated skill set.

With respect, you are overstating the difficulty. Sure, you need to bring more equipment, that's hardly an insurmountable challenge. Lots of us do it each month. You're a smart guy - make a list

I'd like to see some one-gun matches too, but the monthly match at Rio is a regularly scheduled 3-gun format event. I can bend the rules a bit from time to time to lower the bar for newbies who want a taste of 3-gun, but it would be inappropriate for this match to morph into a one-gun event. If you want shotgun-only, come and try Russell's Halloween shotgun match down at Pima Pistol Club on October 31st. If you want rifle-only, come and shoot the Independence Day rifle match.

Edited October 6, 2010 by StealthyBlagga

[Alaskapopo]

I would like to see a rifle/pistol match. I am not into shooting Shotguns, I just don't like them. I would like to see more of a carbine match, using shorter distances and maybe smaller targets. In Law Enforcement, the average distance that a rifle is used at is @ 75 yards. I haven't heard what the average distance is in the sand, but I would not be surprised if there is a large percentage under 100 yards.

If rifle/pistol matches ever become a reality, you would probably start seeing a lot of 9mm start coming out.

Hey Kevin I have to correct you on your state. The average patrol rifle shooting takes place at 25 yards or less. The average sniper shot in LEO work is 55 yards. That being said such a match limited by these parameters would not be that fun or challenging. Its not always about being realistic sometimes its about having fun. For example do you go to a movie to see boring real life stuff or do you want to see fun action movies.

Pat

[Blockhead]

See our Pistol/Carbine Match announcement at http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=114976 .

[JaeOne3345]

I've been a long time lurker on this board and I joined/registered finally just to post in this thread.

I own an AR15 rifle and a Glock 17. I love shooting them both. I always watch the competition vids, read results, etc, but I simply do not make an effort to compete because I do not have a shotgun. I have tried to save for something like an FN shotgun but I typically just end up spending it on more ammo/parts for my rifle/pistols. It's not a money issue for me. I just prefer to shoot pistol and rifle more. God knows I have spent more on my AR than the cost of an FN autoloader.

If there was a two gun format, or a rifle only format, I would join in a second!

It's obvious that pistols are popular and pistol only matches do great. With the rise and popularity of AR15 builds, I do not understand why more event organizers do not do rifle only matches.

I have about 5 friends that I shoot with. A couple of us own shotguns but we shoot those maybe a fraction of the time we shoot pistol/rifle even though shotgun ammo is dirt cheap.

I dream of being able to do something like the SWAT Rodeo:

Edited October 8, 2010 by JaeOne3345

[Graham Smith]

I have to agree with the general premise.

While I understand the attraction of 3-Gun (it interests me as well), the shotgun part is the biggest limitation for me. I really don't have any practical experience with shotguns and really don't have any place I can practice that does not involve shooting clays out of the sky.

I got an inexpensive shotgun so I can shoot some three gun next year, but I would much rather just do rifle/pistol matches.

[Alaskapopo]

I don't practice much with my shotgun because I don't reload shotshells and factory ammo is expensive. But I do practice reloading. I start with the gun empty and fill it up while moving and shoot one round. I can do several loading drills this way on just a little ammo. (that is with my tactical/limited shotgun) with my Saiga it shoots just like my AR's so I don't worry too much about it. I practice before the matches a bit but that is it. I work harder on my rifle and pistol skills. Although it was my shotgun skills that killed me in the last major match I attended. So I may have to re think what I am doing.

Pat

[bunsen27]

I think Jesse said it best:

Every tactical red neck has a glock or 1911 and an AR15 but most only have the shotgun that is setup for bird and turkey hunting or skeet/trap/clays.

I fall into the tactical redneck category as do many others I know. I had a friend convince me to come watch a local 3gun and USPSA match late last summer. After spectating at both I decided I no longer wanted to spectate and wanted to compete. Fortunately for me I had a pistol that would work well in USPSA Production division and 3gun as well as a suitable AR. My only limiting factor for 3gun was the shotgun. I had an older Rem1100 to begin with and in a few months had the the financial resources to convert it into an acceptable form for 3gun ( 22" barrel w/4 shot extension tube).

I started USPSA late last Fall and 3gun this Spring; and I am hooked on competitive action shooting! I am fortunate enough to have three excellent monthly pistol matches locally and two 3gun matches. I really enjoy the pistol matches and the rifle and pistol portions of the 3gun matches, but the shotgun aspect I just do not find appealing. My previous shotgun experience is from many years of trap, skeet, and sporting clays. Aside from some interesting slug shots the emphasis I have seen placed on the shotgun is not how well the competitor can shoot the shotgun, but instead how fast can they reload it or whom can start with the most shells in their guns. I understand from my USPSA shooting that clean, quick, and properly timed reloads are crucial to a successful stage. That same principle applies to 3gun shotgun, but the target presentations I've seen for shotgun just feels lacking to me. I'm used to engaging challenging dynamic targets with a shotgun not "hosefest" statics, rinse and repeat 2-3 times per stage from one shooting position. I recognize that it may be a result of space limitations that locally we don't often shoot one array, move to a second position while reloading, then engage a second array of targets, so on and so forth.

I've spoken with several people at the various pistol matches about why they didn't shoot 3gun and almost every one of them responded with one of two answers:"I used to, but I just don't like the shotgun portion" or "I have the pistol and AR, but no suitable shotgun and don't want to/have to spend $$$ on a shotgun".

I applaud what the 3Gun Nation folks and FNH are doing to increase awareness of 3gun. I feel the TV show and articles on the website have done an outstanding job of presenting the sport in a most favorable of light. However, I still feel that the deciding factor for many people that want to get into 3gun will be the economics of the third gun (typically shotgun). I have to agree with the OP that their is an untapped market out there for rifle & pistol or rifle only matches. I hope in the very near future some individuals or an established organization recognizes this market potential, step up, and establish another great shooting discipline for us to compete in.

[Leozinho]

Add me to the list of USPSA shooters that haven't yet made the leap into 3 gun because of the shotgun portion.

I grew up hunting with a shotgun, but have no interest in trying to be the fastest reloader. Also, I've got a couple of 870s that I used duck and bird hunting, and I'm not keen on purchasing a semi-auto just for 3-gun stages. I plan on shooting one of the majors next year for the fun of it. I know I could use the pumps anyway, but without an extended tube I would hate to look at the scoresheet and wonder where I would have been if I had a more competitive gun.

Edited October 22, 2010 by Leozinho