Sharyn Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 Can we continue this chat here? Maybe I'll get some more good input! To update others, I was discussing my excitement from shooting an Open gun in my first USPSA match. This was my original post on 'another' forum, (which is currently having technical difficulties): I've been to the Dark Side... and LIKED it!I have this Open pistol on loan that I was going to try out at a steel match but ended up not going... so it's been sitting here, definitely not neglected as I fondle it frequently and am mesmerized by it's pretty, luminscent, red dot... *sigh* ... DANGIT, this baby yearns to be shot, and shot fast! I had to do it... just had to!!! I shot my very first USPSA match tonight... and OOOOHHHHH the FREEDOM!!! I'd never used a Ghost holster before, was unfamiliar with the entire rig, actually and have extremely limited experience with a C-MORE. But, I came home with all ten fingers and toes (so did all the other shooters ) and HIGH on adrenaline!!! Wooooooooooo that was fun! I have to admit, it was pretty funny when I finished shooting the stage and the only magazine left was the one directly in front... or when I stopped just before the window to reload "behind cover". IDPA rules die hard, eh? LOL! I'm trying to concentrate my efforts on improving in IDPA, but shooting Open in USPSA looks like it could become an addiction, real fast! Somebody help before this gets out of hand!!! happy girl Then in a later post I stated that the owner, a USPSA GM, offer it to me for $1500. kbear38s responded with some questions that I pretty much wasn't able to answer until I talked to the owner. Then kbear38s responded again with: Find out. If it's not based on an STI or SV frame. I'd stay away from it. 9mm major isn't necessarily a bad thing. Brass is somewhere between free and really cheap. One of the biggest reasons people I know have gone to it is because they don't have to bother picking brass. 9mm major is probably a little tricker to develop loads for because the case is smaller. You have fewer choices of powders that for Super. More likely to have feed problems than Super because of the shorter OAL. I don't think the barrel and comp would have to be changed. I think (not certain) the chamber only needs to be reamed for a Super case. You will need a different extractor and maybe ejector to change to Super. May be the difference between a so-so deal and a great deal. I'd want to know that. Also why is he selling it? Sez who? IPSC is more fun! And here's my response in hopes of continuing this e-conversation : Thanks for the info and advice. It is sound. Like I said, though, I'm not concerned about getting a "good deal" on this gun as I'm sure it is. I'm more concerned about the investment in an addiction. I've gone back and forth about the caliber and I think we're going with .38 Super. It's performing great with 9mm but he'll fix 'er up to shoot .38 Super just as well. I don't think I'll need to worry about changing the extractor or ejector either because he'll take care of whatever needs to be done. It's based on an STI frame. When you asked who built it, I thought you meant which 'smith in particular. The owner works for Briley so he may have done it himself, possibly with input from Claudio Salassa or Eddie Jimenea (?) I forgot to ask him many more details because we were busy discussing my Briley single stack that the plating company is having a hard time black chroming so they're gonna black nickel it instead. I suck at taking pics, but here it is: Why is he selling it?... Welp, it wasn't for sale. He let me borrow it for some training n' stuff. I liked it so much I asked what it would take to get him to sell it to me. He also has at least one other Open gun and working for Briley, I don't think he'd have too much trouble getting another. Oh, and methinks some guy at some range in Arizona thinks it's ok... I will be shooting this gun at my second USPSA match on Thursday (hopefully!) I'm really looking forward to it!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 Cool.. I have an old Briley El Presidente (once their catalog cover gun, I'm told). It's had a somewhat hard life, starting as a 9x25 until that eroded away and it's now living as my backup shorty Super, but it still shoots and works great. Do check the scope mount is on tight-- try and rock it back and forth with some pressure. If it's loose, it'll play hell with your zero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpspeed Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 Welcome to the DOT side Sniper! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RKooi Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 Just curious Sniper; if the gun is set up in 9mm already and runs to the satisfaction of the GM using it currently, then why do you want to convert it to Super? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbear38S Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 I'm not concerned about getting a "good deal" on this gun as I'm sure it is. I'm more concerned about the investment in an addiction. But that's the whole point, isn't it! Briley's reputable enough that it sounds like the gun is okay. There are some junkers floating around from do-it-yourselfers and some hack gunsmiths which is why the 'who dunnit' is important. Buy the open gun and join the USPSA. This time next year you can post here for us to convince you to buy that 3-Gun AR and shotgun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 I agree with Roger. Why change it from 9mm to Super if it works? 9mm brass is cheap (Super brass adds up.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharyn Posted February 5, 2004 Author Share Posted February 5, 2004 shred, thanks for the advice. All seems to be okie dokie. warpspeed, ROFL! This time next year you can post here for us to convince you to buy that 3-Gun AR and shotgun. Dangit!!! Yer killin' me with how right on you are! 'cept a year is a looong time... I guess I'm more prone to addiction than others??? I've already been "advised" by a local shooter about a JP-15 or CTR-02. GAH!!! Briley's reputable enough that it sounds like the gun is okay. There are some junkers floating around from do-it-yourselfers and some hack gunsmiths which is why the 'who dunnit' is important. Yuup, I totally agree and I thank you for your advice from the get-go. I'm confident in the gun and if you didn't get my "subtle" ( ) hint above... that's Matt Burkett shooting it. He had a few minor complaints about my two other pistols, but I don't recall any negative comments about that one... Buy the open gun and join the USPSA. I requested membership info yesterday. RKooi and Flexmoney, like I said, I've gone back and forth about the caliber and in all honesty I'm still undecided. Now that I'll have this one and the 9mm single stack, it would make it easier to reload for... but then again, I like variety... I'm not familiar enough with USPSA or reloading to make the decision easy for myself. I've just recently started reloading and I only load .45. Is it difficult to push 9mm to Major? Are there any benefits to shooting Minor? Other than economic factors (which is important) why would you choose either 9mm or .38 Super? Pros/cons of each? The only aspect of USPSA that I feel confident of my knowlege is the classifications (GM, M, A, B, C... ) I don't know how the heck ya get 'em, but I know the letters and their order! Help! HEEELLLP! I need HEEELLLP! I'm such a newbie! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RKooi Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 I was initially one of the 9x19 in major skeptics. I am becoming much less so as I watch them perform. I still haven't converted my guns, mainly due to up front cost issues, but may have to bite the bullet and do so next year. In a 5" gun like that one, you will have no problem making major in 9x19 with a plethora of powders; SP2, N350, 3n38,N340, etc. If the gun runs like it is supposed to now, then don't change a thing. And remember: 1000 pieces .38 Supercomp brass - $99 10,000 pieces 9x19 brass - $135 Not having to fumble around on the ground looking for brass after a field course - PRICELESS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric nielsen Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 My $.02 worth - leave it in 9mm for now and shoot factory ammo while you wait on reloading gear to arrive. Shoot minor for a few matches - your desire to shoot A's will increase. Then work up the 9Major loads up when you're ready. Once you get set up to reload 9mm, you will also be set up to reload 38super. With brass brass I liked the 9mm sizing die better than the 38super sizing die. You can try both - IF you ever switch to Super. Around here, the match ranges are littered with thousands of spent casings that ppl don't pick up - because 9mm and 40cal brass is so cheap. You might get lucky and recover 50% of your own brass at a range like that. With 9x19 - no need. You also will have the mags to shoot either caliber. No sweat, wait & see. I think you made a good purchase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 - The old, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" comes to mind. - Picking up Super brass is like picking up dimes. Picking up 9mm brass is like picking up pennies. (And, there will be plenty of brass lost.) - You can get to Major with 9mm fairly easily. Not that you shouldn't be extra careful...you are loading to high pressure (unlike loading low-pressure 45's). Make especially sure that you don't get any bullet setback. - About the only benefit to shooting Minor I can think of is if you are trying to train yourself to shoot all Alphas. That takes lots of extra disipline...and you are beating yourself up (losing points) for non-Alph hits. Shooting Minor could be easier on the gun (and shooter). And, it might be better for games that don't recognize Major (like Steel Challenge). But, you might have to set the gun up differently to shoot Minor, verses shooting the Major rounds it is setup for now. (That could be as simple as changing the recoil spring.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriss Grube Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 Shooting minor just plain sucks. Get set up for 9mm and do a search here. There is plenty of data for 9 major. I started shooting it back before the BOD changed the OAL rule. People told me I was nuts, couple years later and now a bunch of guys are switching to 9mm. Get SV tubes for your mags and you'll have no problems with feeding the shorter length rounds. The only reason to shoot super over 9mm is if they start giving super brass away for free. Otherwise you're just pissing money away that can be used to shoot more matches . VV powders are perfect for 9 major loads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snokid Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 I just got done building myself a short open gun and like you sort of I was considering building it in 9x19 but I made the choice to build it in super instead, having read too many complaints about how hard/limiting it would be to develope loads for the shorter case of the 9x19. Not the I'm not happy with what I have built but roll the clock back 3 months and I would of reamed it to 9x19 instead of super. As it is I most likely rebarrel it as soon as I need more brass. The cost of the brass will easily cover the cost of the brass alone. When you start to reload the 9x19 I would make sure that there is no way the there is no way that you can mix up minor loads and your major loads.(maybe hollow points for major and round nose for minor). so my point of this post is leave it alone. Get set up for reloading, work up the loads slowly. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RKooi Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 If you don't feel like reloading 9x19, go order some Hirtenberger +P+. I have seen it for around $129/1200 in Shotgun News. It makes major in short (commander length) 9mm open guns so it should definitely make it in yours. I am told it is a little snappy but I guess that is relative to what you are used to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharyn Posted February 6, 2004 Author Share Posted February 6, 2004 WOW! Thanks for all the excellent information! ok, it's confirmed that I don't want to shoot minor. I don't really have an issue with hitting Alphas, I need to speed up! That's what got me into this whole USPSA mess in the first place. Trying out the game to improve my speed in IDPA and I got hooked! Shot my second USPSA match tonight... paying my membership dues and will most likely shoot Space City Challenge... It's official... I'm a junkie. I'm still undecided about the caliber. I think I need to talk with the owner some more and discuss the advice/pros and cons y'all have shared. I just don't think I know enough about the sport or reloading to make this decision. It seems like .38 Super would be easier for me (although pricey). I'm way too new to reloading to feel comfortable pushing any envelopes. The ammo RKooi mentioned might be a good option, thanks! The gun works now and it worked in .38 Super too. The owner has everything we need to make it work either way, at no cost to me. I feel like the decision is more about the ammo (now that Minor has been ruled out), but I don't know enough to be certain... Do compensators affect muzzle velocity? I know next to nothing about compensators as well. Thanks everyone!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbear38S Posted February 6, 2004 Share Posted February 6, 2004 Compensators do not affect muzzle velocity. Barrel ports, aka hybrid ports, TJ holes, popple holes and a bunch of other things are holes drilled in the the barrel itself. They direct high pressure gas upward to reduce muzzle flip though the don't really reduce rearward recoil. They bleed off 15-25 fps per hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshua Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 Just want to verify that your gun is capable of firing 9mm Parabellum and 38 Super? Does your gun have any accuracy issues when firing 9mm parabellum? I've seen it done at the range a 9x21 gun firing 9x19 ammo, but not 38 super gun firing 9x19 ammo. I would like to know how it's done reliably. What kind of extractor does it have? josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharyn Posted February 8, 2004 Author Share Posted February 8, 2004 hybrid ports, TJ holes, popple holes Don't laugh... well, I guess ya can... but, I would know if this gun had those things, right? joshua, I have no idea. I've only shot it 9x19 not .38 Super. It's very accurate in 9mm. The current owner works for Briley. I don't know how they do it, but I think Briley can make most guns reliable and accurate. I'll ask about the extractor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbear38S Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 Sniper, the hybrid holes are holes in the barrel. They vent gas upward to counteract muzzle flip. The bullet is still in the barrel at that point and the gas pressure is very high which gives a downward jet effect. It's also the difference between a loud open gun and a VERY loud open gun. Photo used WITH permission from Brazos Custom so stop by his website and buy something. Thanks Bob! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharyn Posted February 9, 2004 Author Share Posted February 9, 2004 joshua, I think I misinterpreted your post initially. Currently, it is set up for 9x19 only... not 9x19/.38 Super. Am I understanding your question? kbear38S, thanks! Cool pic ya hijacked there! A couple of the guys at the two matches I shot were shooting Brazos Custom guns. In fact I think those were the ones that I had to turn my e-ears down when they shot! Do those flames that fly outta there affect target acquisition? made me see spots... I don't think there are any holes in this barrel. I was chatting with some guys today about 9mm Major. They said they'd tried it with West Coast plated bullets and the accuracy was very poor due to blasting the plating off (in essence). Can anyone confirm/deny? How would lead do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriss Grube Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 Lead would be a big NO! I've had great accuracy and reliability from Zero bullets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbear38S Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 Cool pic ya hijacked there! Bob at Brazos Custom has gracefully granted his permission for it's use! Do those flames that fly outta there affect target acquisition? made me see spots... I don't think there are any holes in this barrel.The flames are more a function of the powder used than the hybrid holes but to answer your question, in bright daylight, the flash isn't a problem. It messed my up pretty bad in a match that was finishing well into dusk. The flash was a big distraction for me. I was chatting with some guys today about 9mm Major. They said they'd tried it with West Coast plated bullets and the accuracy was very poor due to blasting the plating off (in essence). Can anyone confirm/deny? How would lead do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRBean Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Stick with Montona Gold or Zero JHP bullets. I tried some of the plated bullets in my wifes limited gun and they had a tendncy to keyhole at about 15 yards. I got rid of them real quick. For what its worth if the guns runs 100% set up the way it is thendon't change anything. If the previous owner already has a load worked up for 9mm major all the guess work is already done for you and should simply your reloading issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Look to jacketed bullets when pushing the velocity up. Leave the plated bullets for the slower loads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 IME, plated bullets and barrel holes don't mix well, even at lower velocities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharyn Posted February 13, 2004 Author Share Posted February 13, 2004 Thanks everyone! I am most appreciative of y'all sharing your knowledge. But... despite all of your incredibly helpful advice, we decided to go with .38 Super due to my reloading inexperience... brass is cheaper than blowing up the gun. kbear38S, AH HA!!! This is what you're talking about... the 9mm barrel was not ported. I shot my third USPSA match tonight... (membership online day before yesterday )... and I'm HOOKED! I LOVE this game! The gun ran flawlessly ('cept for one mag... and it's definitely the mag) and I really like this caliber... never shot it before tonight. The red dot seemed so much easier to see than with 9mm... does that make sense? It wasn't 'buzzing' all around and it looked clearer. I loved makin' all that noise and flames! Felt like I was playin' with the big boys instead of a lil gal with a squeekie mouse gun. WOO HOO! I was literally shaking after I shot and not because I was nervous anymore... because I wanted to GO!!! oh... my... gosh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now