IDPA Defensive Multi-Gun rules

[RobMoore]

It probably went something like "In the other multi-gun, Saigas are 'open' guns. We don't have an 'open' division, so we won't allow them."

[1911vm]

that's the same interpretation I had - you can run your carbine in ESG with iron sights. There's no requirement to use an optic on your rifle, although you can get a red-dot optic for a pretty reasonable price. I'm kind of excited about the M1 Carbine being in the Pistol Caliber category. Tell me it wouldn't be cool to run an M1 Carbine, a Remington Model 11 and a Mil-Spec 1911 in Enhanced PCC?

One thing to be aware of is that M1 when shot at pistol grade steel may damage it. We learned that the hard way in our local pistol caliber carbine matches.

[shooterready]

that's the same interpretation I had - you can run your carbine in ESG with iron sights. There's no requirement to use an optic on your rifle, although you can get a red-dot optic for a pretty reasonable price. I'm kind of excited about the M1 Carbine being in the Pistol Caliber category. Tell me it wouldn't be cool to run an M1 Carbine, a Remington Model 11 and a Mil-Spec 1911 in Enhanced PCC?

One thing to be aware of is that M1 when shot at pistol grade steel may damage it. We learned that the hard way in our local pistol caliber carbine matches.

+2, bad juju on steels, so many changes needed that I see.

[sirveyr]

Looks like we have a "let’s be different" set of rules for no other reason than.....let’s be different.

I think that is how we got IDPA in the first place.

Admittedly, I haven't shot a lo of 3 gun, and the ones I have shot have been a PITA all day affair. The low round count makes it seem like an awful lot of work to drag all of my shit to the range and sit around all day like most 3 gun matches. However, I will reserve final judgment until I shoot one or two of the matches.

[sirveyr]

Has anyone shot a DMG match yet? I have not, but I'm curious to hear from others that have.

[freeidaho]

We are shooting a DMG side stage at our night shoot in October. It will be shotgun, with a transition to pistol.

The stage requires shooting around a barricade on strong and weak side with the shotgun. It also requires missing a no-shoot or two with the shotgun. Should be good fun.... in total darkness.

kr

[sirveyr]

The stage requires shooting around a barricade on strong and weak side with the shotgun. It also requires missing a no-shoot or two with the shotgun. Should be good fun.... in total darkness

It's only dark until that first round goes off. Muzzle flash, the original tactical light.

A night match sounds like fun. I don't think our range neighbors would like that too much. However, it is easier to beg for forgiveness than ask for permission. LAMR...

[fastarget]

Setting up for the first DMG side stage in march, it will be a two gun, lots of interest in this area.

No issues with the rules, most like them simple and the limits on the equipment keeps it practical and inexpensive.

Only two questions so far, where can you put a shot caddie on your belt legally, and is a ported choke considered a compensator?

My thought on the choke was yes, it is a type of compensator. How about the caddie, only in front of the holster?

[Haji]

Rifle: 5.56 x 45 mm (.223) or larger caliber, with iron or single optic sights only. The

use of an inline optical magnifier is legal.

I'm confused as to what that means. Are they saying that a magnifier is not an optic, so a red dot sight and a magnifier is just one optic?

Glad to see IDPA acknowledging that there are other guns than just pistols and revolvers. Three gun seems to be growing in leaps and bounds; it's good to see IDPA noticing that.

[fastarget]

Rifle: 5.56 x 45 mm (.223) or larger caliber, with iron or single optic sights only. The

use of an inline optical magnifier is legal.

Are they saying that a magnifier is not an optic, so a red dot sight and a magnifier is just one optic?

correct

[Haji]

Thanks!

[jnikoley]

What follows is what I see as the only issues I could find in the IDPA DMG rule book, one of which (point 2), has already been addressed:

-Point 1: In the list of excluded modifications in every division for item 4 it includes "Recoil reducing devices". All of the "compensators" we use in other 3 gun disciplines are by definition: "A muzzle brake used to counter the recoil of a firearm, or to prevent the muzzle from climbing due to kickback" -Wikipedia definition of "compensator". Sounds like a "Recoil reducing device" to me. Almost every manufacturer of the current "compensators" on the market are described by their manufacturers as "muzzle brakes" or "...greatly reduce recoil and muzzle rise.." -Excerpt for the description of Surefire MB556K, from Surefire.com.

Also, aren't soft rubber "recoil eliminator, (etc.)" butt pads on shotguns, and most rifles, also not "recoil reducing devices".

I really don't think IDPA HQ meant to exclude just about every rifle and shotgun in use in all the other 3-gun disciplines by the exclusion of "recoil reducing devices". However, I can assure you, some MD somewhere will require us to use a bare muzzle, or at best, an A2 flash hider/compensator (by his definition - compensator: no baffles, so not a compensator/muzzle brake, but a compensator/flash hider). Of course, no rubber butt pads on rifles or shotguns either at that MD's matches. Perhaps a changing of the wording "Recoil reducing devices", or a more specific list of what is allowed, to include Glossary definitions, can prevent that scenario from ever becoming a reality.

Point 2: As others have stated before, the extended magazine tube (past the muzzle) restriction for shotguns has got to go. I see no competitive advantage for having a gun unnecessarily longer than it needs to be. The only thing this rule does is to exclude shooters that have equipment ready to go for other 3-gun disciplines. We have the division capacity limit for the shotguns, that alone should suffice.

Point 3: There are all types of ways to "game" the rifle stages as the current book is written. Rifles need to have a division capacity stipulated, just as the pistols and shotguns do. As an example.. Since you are required to perform a mandatory reload (of an un-specified type) on any stage where more than 15 rounds are fired, I would simply load my first magazine to 15 rounds, which is cinched to another 15 round magazine. For a 16+ round stage: shoot 15 to bolt open, quick "emergency" load with cinched mags, win the stage, and set up a table after the match to sell everyone else "magazine coupling devices". Either the removal of the mandatory reload, or the dis-allowance for magazine coupling devices, and/or the inclusion of a rifle Division Capacity stipulation would prevent that scenario.

Other than the above three things, I can live with the rest of the IDPA DMG rules. I think that they are fine.

Edited March 24, 2011 by jnikoley

[Haji]

That's going to have to be defined to make any sense. On a hunting rifle or shotgun, the rubber butt pad is to help mitigate recoil. On a 5.56 AR, and probably most if not all other rifles in that class, the pad is to keep the butt of the stock from sliding around the shooter's shoulder. I also find it interesting that muzzle brakes are ruled against while most of the gunfighters I know that are allowed to change their muzzle device often go to one of a handful of brake designs unless their primary job is doing room entries. Brakes are NO FUN indoors and even less fun as the rooms get smaller.

Still and all, I'm really quite pleased to see an acknowledgement of multi gun and shooter's desires to shoot it, and within the IDPA framework. It not only widens the appeal of IDPA, it shows that the leadership is interested in pushing it forward.

[Tom D.]

Gentlemen,

As to the restrictions on shotguns, one only has to look at what Wilson sells to understand the rationale. Just my opinion.

[Agent #1911]

...lumping CDP and ESP guns in the same category is odd to say the least, ...

There's a really easy way to fix that. Add a heavy metal division. CDP pistol, 308 rifle, 12G shotgun.

I agree completely.

[Merlin Orr]

So are side saddle ammo storage devices allowed affixed (Velcro) to the shotgun?