DQ'd for dropping fragged gun?

[mactiger]

You can't stop him from continuing. Not saying I would, but if I wanted to continue it is my choice at this point.

I think he meant continue with that ammo. Not just continue shooting, providing he had a new gun and some new ammo.

Troy

[RobMoore]

At this point the assembly of parts could no longer be described as a "handgun". Paperweight, maybe.

Would you have a problem selling me said paperweight after the match without any ATF paperwork being involved?

[Singlestack]

You can't stop him from continuing. Not saying I would, but if I wanted to continue it is my choice at this point.

I think he meant continue with that ammo. Not just continue shooting, providing he had a new gun and some new ammo.

Troy

So, you are gonna DQ the ammo over one bullet? Would you do the same over one squib?

[Schutzenmeister]

At this point the assembly of parts could no longer be described as a "handgun". Paperweight, maybe.

Would you have a problem selling me said paperweight after the match without any ATF paperwork being involved?

If we both lived in the same state and it was a person-to-person transaction ... SURE, no problem! (None required ...)

[Sarge]

Count your fingers, check your eye sight, look for any new holes in your body, leave the smoking wreck on the ground and walk away.

Live to fight another day.

Gary, that sounds like very good advice. I did however, see a shooter have a major malfunction with a gun last year that resulted in some injuries requiring a trip to the hospital. Damned if he didn't keep that thing pointed downrange with his trigger out of the guard until another shooter could secure it. Not sure I could manage that.

I took it from the gun was already on the ground. When I tore my ACL out of my right knee, I was on the ground, handed the gun to the RO and told him to either unload it or shoot me with it, at that point I didn't care

You know what Gary? I can see you doing that!

[mactiger]

You can't stop him from continuing. Not saying I would, but if I wanted to continue it is my choice at this point.

I think he meant continue with that ammo. Not just continue shooting, providing he had a new gun and some new ammo.

Troy

So, you are gonna DQ the ammo over one bullet? Would you do the same over one squib?

I probably would in this case, because it's considerably more serious than a single squib. Consider this: if it was a double charge and not a bullet stuck in the barrel, he's probably got that one squib lurking in his loaded rounds somewhere. I'd rather err on the side of safety in this case. Providing he hadn't dropped the gun, (and wasn't too injured to) he could continue to shoot with a new gun and some different ammo. Neither of which would probably be hard to find around a bunch of USPSA shooters.

Troy

[mactiger]

Count your fingers, check your eye sight, look for any new holes in your body, leave the smoking wreck on the ground and walk away.

Live to fight another day.

Gary, that sounds like very good advice. I did however, see a shooter have a major malfunction with a gun last year that resulted in some injuries requiring a trip to the hospital. Damned if he didn't keep that thing pointed downrange with his trigger out of the guard until another shooter could secure it. Not sure I could manage that.

I took it from the gun was already on the ground. When I tore my ACL out of my right knee, I was on the ground, handed the gun to the RO and told him to either unload it or shoot me with it, at that point I didn't care

You know what Gary? I can see you doing that!

Man, I'm never in the right place at the right time....

Troy

[JThompson]

You can't stop him from continuing. Not saying I would, but if I wanted to continue it is my choice at this point.

I think he meant continue with that ammo. Not just continue shooting, providing he had a new gun and some new ammo.

Troy

So, you are gonna DQ the ammo over one bullet? Would you do the same over one squib?

I probably would in this case, because it's considerably more serious than a single squib. Consider this: if it was a double charge and not a bullet stuck in the barrel, he's probably got that one squib lurking in his loaded rounds somewhere. I'd rather err on the side of safety in this case. Providing he hadn't dropped the gun, (and wasn't too injured to) he could continue to shoot with a new gun and some different ammo. Neither of which would probably be hard to find around a bunch of USPSA shooters.

Troy

Those were my thoughts precisely....

JT

[twodownzero]

No it doesn't, but there's noway in hell I let him continue with it even if he didn't drop the weapon.

Well, of course not. But it's not a DQ to have ammo that you don't know, or hasn't been declared, unsafe. Dropping the gun is, no matter what the circumstances.

Troy

Uh, back the truck up there just a second Mr. RMI. Dropping a gun isn't, of necessity, a DQ. Dropping a gun during the course of fire, yes. Dropping a gun independent of those circumstances, no, unless the competitor picks it up.

Edited July 7, 2010 by twodownzero

[Flexmoney]

No it doesn't, but there's noway in hell I let him continue with it even if he didn't drop the weapon.

Well, of course not. But it's not a DQ to have ammo that you don't know, or hasn't been declared, unsafe. Dropping the gun is, no matter what the circumstances.

Troy

Uh, back the truck up there just a second Mr. RMI. Dropping a gun isn't, of necessity, a DQ. Dropping a gun during the course of fire, yes. Dropping a gun independent of those circumstance, no, unless the competitor picks it up.

Uh, back the truck up there just a second Mr. DRL in training.

I am pretty sure he meant that in the context of this particular thread...which was certainly during the cof.

[JThompson]

No it doesn't, but there's noway in hell I let him continue with it even if he didn't drop the weapon.

Well, of course not. But it's not a DQ to have ammo that you don't know, or hasn't been declared, unsafe. Dropping the gun is, no matter what the circumstances.

Troy

Uh, back the truck up there just a second Mr. RMI. Dropping a gun isn't, of necessity, a DQ. Dropping a gun during the course of fire, yes. Dropping a gun independent of those circumstances, no, unless the competitor picks it up.

Actually, a "dropped" gun is always a DQ. However, if one falls from the holster it's not a DQ. Funny thing is, if the RC is given and you still have your hand on the gun and it is dropped, you are DQed for handing the gun outside the COF. I found that there are no words there which define that the hand must leave the gun or the holster be locked.... hmmmm. In other words, from reading the book, it just says the shooter must, "holster" the handgun. That's why I love this forum... so when can you issue the range clear? I have always done so when the holster was locked (if any) and the hand has left the gun and I can see that the gun is stable. However, I do not see that in the rules. Technically, you can issue the RC command "before" the hand leaves the gun,presumably when the trigger gaurd is covered by the holster. I can't believe that never occurred to me until just now. hmmm again... There is no definition of what holstering is. hmmmm cubed. I would have thought it would be defined as the holster locked (if any) and or the hand leaves the gun. Of course the condition would also have to be met per 8.3.7 X.

JT

Edited July 7, 2010 by JThompson

[twodownzero]

Fair enough, Jim. I try to stop ROs from giving "Range is clear" until my Ghost is locked. In fact, at the RO class, they made it very clear NOT to do it until the competitor was done fiddling with the gun, and my RO for the practical section tried giving range is clear without waiting.

I think you'd be hard pressed to DQ someone for "dropping" their gun after the "Range is clear" command was given unless you could clearly articulate that they were handling their gun outside of the COF. I know I wouldn't DQ someone for that. Once you give "range is clear," if the competitor drops his gun somehow because he's still fiddling with it, that's RO failure more so than competitor failure.

I do see your point, though.

[AlamoShooter]

Droped gun that is not a DQ as in droped at the safe table -Bing bump bounc into the walkway.

Drop the gun as in it falls out of the bag that is not ziped up all the way -bing bong bounc in to the walkway

Drop the gun as in the zipper rips open as you rais your hand to put it in the truck tool box.

Drop the gun , it could happen

[mactiger]

Major thread drift.

Context, context, context.

Troy

[JThompson]

Droped gun that is not a DQ as in droped at the safe table -Bing bump bounc into the walkway.

Drop the gun as in it falls out of the bag that is not ziped up all the way -bing bong bounc in to the walkway

Drop the gun as in the zipper rips open as you rais your hand to put it in the truck tool box.

Drop the gun , it could happen

Actually, I'm too tired to debate further, but I think your logic may be flawed.

JT

Edited July 7, 2010 by JThompson

[mactiger]

Droped gun that is not a DQ as in droped at the safe table -Bing bump bounc into the walkway.

Drop the gun as in it falls out of the bag that is not ziped up all the way -bing bong bounc in to the walkway

Drop the gun as in the zipper rips open as you rais your hand to put it in the truck tool box.

Drop the gun , it could happen

Actually, I'm too tired to debate further, but I think your logic may be flawed.

JT

He's just echoing Mr. DRL in training's sentiments about times when you drop your gun and it doesn't count against you. It's still dropped.

Back to the topic:

Yes, it is a DQ for dropping your gun within a course of fire, and yes, I would consider that ammo unsafe and ask the competitor to withdraw it from the match.

And yes, within the course of fire is the context I was replying in. (Thanks, Flex.)

Troy

[joecichlid]

Count your fingers, check your eye sight, look for any new holes in your body, leave the smoking wreck on the ground and walk away.

Live to fight another day.

You forgot to add change ones short as a fresh pair would likely be needed. If it happened to me I would do the above and then make sure the RO was ok as his butt should have been close enough to stop me if I had tried to recover the gun and continue then count myself DQed before the smoke cleared.

Joe W.