sperman Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 At the match on Saturday, a competitor (his first match, I believe) was on one side of the range, and realized he forgot to engage targets on the opposite side of the range. Instead of turning downrange to get to the missed target, he turned uprage. He managed to get the gun pointed at his feet before sweeping anyone (the whole squad was spread out about 10 feet behind him.) He clearly broke the 180, and swept his feet in the process. A scary way for his day to end, for everyone involved. Am I correct that as long as you keep the gun pointed downrange, and don't sweep yourself in the process, there is nothing that would get you disqualified for turning uprange. I know there is no good reason to do this, and the odds of someone doing this successfully are almost nil, but I just want to make sure I'm not missing something in the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayouSlide Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 Muzzle of the gun is the only thing prohibited from pointing uprange, per 10.5.2. Keep the muzzle uprange and retreat at will. Curtis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Miles Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 As long as the gun stays pointed down range and you do not sweep yourself you are good to go. Depending on how a stage is laid out and where the starting position is a knowledgeable and safe shooter might throw the gun up over his shoulder pointed down range and run up range to move to another shooting position. Again, the gun is UP OVER his shoulder so he does not sweep his weak arm at any time. Gun is always pointed safely down range. Hopefully the shooter will tell you of his plan so if you are the RO you don't get run over. CYa, Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebg3 Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 I don't know if it's possible to turn around uprange with the gun pointed down and not break the 180 or sweep your feet. Either of those would be cause a DQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkatz44 Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 I don't know if it's possible to turn around uprange with the gun pointed down and not break the 180 or sweep your feet. Either of those would be cause a DQ. Sure it's possible. Watch this video. (Skip to 1:50) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkatz44 Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 Also, here is a vid of Max at the world shoot. (Skip to 1:50) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted July 5, 2010 Author Share Posted July 5, 2010 I'm not talking about pointing the gun downrange whil running uprange. I'm talking about making a 180 degree turn, except making the turn in the uprange direction instead of the downrange direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted July 5, 2010 Author Share Posted July 5, 2010 Here's a video of the stage in question. Go to 0:32 in. Imagine, instead of turning to his right, to engage the targets on the right, he turns to the left. (Thanks for letting me borrow your video, Glenn.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebg3 Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 I don't know if it's possible to turn around uprange with the gun pointed down and not break the 180 or sweep your feet. Either of those would be cause a DQ. Sure it's possible. Watch this video. (Skip to 1:50) I meant to turn all the way around and be facing downrange again. I thought the OP meant that in his post. EG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
67GTONUT Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 I don't know if it's possible to turn around uprange with the gun pointed down and not break the 180 or sweep your feet. Either of those would be cause a DQ. Sure it's possible. Watch this video. (Skip to 1:50) Check out that video at the 3:08 mark...... pretty damn close to breaking the 180 there..... I am new to this, so if I am wrong thats OK also....LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootingirons45 Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 The type of movement is called, I believe, the European retreat. It does work and there's nothing really dangerous about it, but it sure will freak some folks out if they are new to the sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted July 6, 2010 Author Share Posted July 6, 2010 This has nothing to do with retreating uprange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shooter_rob Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 Scott, Ask Paul H about it, he successfully did it once, he did not intend to, but he did. I am sure he will tell you how he did it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootingirons45 Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 A few months back I used the euro retreat, uprange, at Pitt Co. The stage was Shaped in a V. The method I used was the best for me but I can see where it may not have been the best for everybody. As Rob said, Pauls done something similar. The secret is knowing where and when to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markcic Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 At the match on Saturday, a competitor (his first match, I believe) was on one side of the range, and realized he forgot to engage targets on the opposite side of the range. Instead of turning downrange to get to the missed target, he turned uprage. He managed to get the gun pointed at his feet before sweeping anyone (the whole squad was spread out about 10 feet behind him.) He clearly broke the 180, and swept his feet in the process. A scary way for his day to end, for everyone involved. Am I correct that as long as you keep the gun pointed downrange, and don't sweep yourself in the process, there is nothing that would get you disqualified for turning uprange. I know there is no good reason to do this, and the odds of someone doing this successfully are almost nil, but I just want to make sure I'm not missing something in the rules. The way I read that is they turned from the right side of the range to left side or the other way around and they turned up instead of down range when they did it, correct? I don't see how it is possible to do that not break the 180 or sweep themselves. The other option of pointing the gun down range and running up range without breaking the 180 is possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted July 6, 2010 Author Share Posted July 6, 2010 The way I read that is they turned from the right side of the range to left side or the other way around and they turned up instead of down range when they did it, correct? I don't see how it is possible to do that not break the 180 or sweep themselves. The other option of pointing the gun down range and running up range without breaking the 180 is possible. The first option is what happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pvhendrix Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 Scott, Will show you next time I see you. It was done by accident and not planned. My read on your post is that this person turned and the gallery could see the gun between them and his body, with the muzzel pointed at the ground. Is that correct? If so.. then in my opinion he broke the 180. The time I did it, I turned my body the wrong direction turned left (needed to move laterally right down the side of a car) caught that I was turning in the wrong direction and kept the gun pointed at the targets as I rolled under my gun arm. Was actually suprised that I kept the gun pointed muzzel down range and the RO was also. That was many years ago when I was much; younger, agile, limber, lighter, ect,ect..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted July 6, 2010 Author Share Posted July 6, 2010 Paul, You've got it right. I guess I did a poor job of explaining what happened. I wish I'd been there to see your acrobatic feat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 Just to make sure I've got everything straight. Gun muzzle level with horizon, turn from downrange to uprange: DQ for breaking the 180. Gun muzzle pointing vertically downwards directly at feet/legs: DQ for sweeping. In the middle of a course of fire, shooter puts gun back into ready condition as per 8.1.1/8.1.2, holster's and then turns uprange: no DQ because when gun was pointed at feet because shooter was in the process of holstering. As far as I know, it's legal to be facing uprange with a holstered gun. So if the shooter had a straight up and down draw holster and was facing uprange, is it legal to draw the gun straight up so that the muzzle stays on the 180 plane, then point it down range and do a European retreat? Or will the shooter have to turn, draw, and then turn once more to do a European retreat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pvhendrix Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 Really don't think this had to do with any type of "retreat". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted July 6, 2010 Author Share Posted July 6, 2010 Drawing while facing uprange is specifically prohibited in the rulebook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schutzenmeister Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 [...] So if the shooter had a straight up and down draw holster and was facing uprange, is it legal to draw the gun straight up so that the muzzle stays on the 180 plane, then point it down range and do a European retreat? Or will the shooter have to turn, draw, and then turn once more to do a European retreat? Drawing while facing uprange is specifically prohibited in the rulebook. 10.5.16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 [...] So if the shooter had a straight up and down draw holster and was facing uprange, is it legal to draw the gun straight up so that the muzzle stays on the 180 plane, then point it down range and do a European retreat? Or will the shooter have to turn, draw, and then turn once more to do a European retreat? Drawing while facing uprange is specifically prohibited in the rulebook. 10.5.16 Ah good, point. Forgot about that. This is the reason, I shouldn't be posting at 3AM. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgnoyes Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 Am I correct that as long as you keep the gun pointed downrange, and don't sweep yourself in the process, there is nothing that would get you disqualified for turning uprange. I know there is no good reason to do this, and the odds of someone doing this successfully are almost nil, but I just want to make sure I'm not missing something in the rules. Look at the July-Aug Front Sight. You'll see a picture in there of exactly this type of movement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootingirons45 Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 We can always substitue the word retreat with tactical redeployment.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now