SPQRsniper Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 Man... its time to have a REAL discussion on this site.<P>So.. with that being said, lets have a no-holds-barred discusion.<P>A guy shows up at your range. Never seen him before. We all know we eyeball the equipment. Measuring up... lets see... nice speed rig, 5 mag pouches, Pro-Ears, cleates, Oakly Juliet sunglasses... seems like this guy's got some cash or has been doing it a while... one or the other, maybe both. Then you glance down.. "Huh. Thats a Glock." Whats the next thing that goes through your mind? "Dude, that guys got guts shooting that pice of .... tupperware out here. I'll show him." or no? "Wow. Nice G17. Look at those Bomars, custom milled into his slide... this guy seems allright."<P>Which camp are you in? We all know that the shooter is more important than the equipment... but which are you more fearful of? A G 17 or a SV.38 comp gun? Be honest now guys, do glocks hold there own in USPSA? Or do their cons outweigh their pros? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 First thing I look at on a gun is the sights. If I saw Bo-Mars on a Glock I'd say the dude is serious. If I saw it was a 9mm, I'd expect he's in Production. If I found out he's shooting Minor in one of the Limited divisions I'd think he's one badass A-shooting M.F. Glocks are not among the guns to be dismissed out of hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 I have to ask... What difference does it make to you what gun/caliber someone else shoots? It's not your score, so what should you care? I don't give a damn if someone shows up with a rusty Luger. If they're having fun, I'm happy for 'em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Dunlop Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 Didn't that guy Valdez get 8th at the World shoot in Brazil using a stock glock, blazer ammo and an IWB holster? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 Quote: from Erik Warren on 12:58 am on Jan. 23, 2002 If I found out he's shooting Minor in one of the Limited divisions I'd think he's one badass A-shooting M.F. Thanks for the compliment Erik! LMAO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julien Boit Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 At WSXII, swedish shooter Robert Sodestrom placed Five overall using a G35 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpty1 Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 Presently being a Glock shooter, 35 in Lim-10 and 34 in production, I can tell you, I hear some interesting comments. I most like those backhanded compliments from a RO I've never met before. After shooting, maybe while I'm initialing the scoresheet the RO will say "Wow! That wasn't bad.. (pause).....with a Glock". As if I was purposely penalizing myself by shooting a Glock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBChaffin Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 The description given in the first post almost exactly matches a shooter here. He made Master class shooting a Para, and then for several reasons sold off his equipment and slowed down on the shooting for a while. When he comes out now, he shoots a Glock 17 with speed rig in Limited. Yep, he's minor, but he gets some crazy number or rounds in his magazines and has consistently been in the top 3 or so in Limited at our local matches. A Glock is not to be dismissed. I admit I left one for an SV a few months ago, but a good shooter can take a Glock (and sometimes lesser guns) and do quite well. I have seen the results (and his classification) to know that Chris (cpty1) is one of those good shooters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 Judge not, least ye be judged...so sayeth the score card Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 Amen, Brother Flex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpty1 Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 Thank you for the compliment DB. You are too kind. I'm looking to prove that one can make master in Lim-10 and production with a Glock and a $20 holster. Besides that, I do enjoy the simplicity of my gear. Definitely low maintenance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDean Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 ..... which are you more fearful of? A G 17 or a SV.38 comp gun? Be honest now guys, do glocks hold there own in USPSA? Or do their cons outweigh their pros? ... A $2500 Open blaster doesn't intimidate me. Sometimes the person shooting it does. I often wonder "what if" one of the top-three shooters showed up at the Limited Nationals with a adequately modified Glock . What would be the outcome? I'm curious SPQRsniper, what do you think the Pros/Cons are of the Glock in USPSA competition? Lets break it down so we can compare and contrast.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPQRsniper Posted January 24, 2002 Author Share Posted January 24, 2002 I agree with most of the replys.<p>I met a guy at the texas limited shooting a glock... 35 i think... and he was a GM. yeah, Valdez can kick some a with a glock. But let me ask you this... how many good glock shooters do we see compared to good single action shooters do we see?<p>Personally, i think this is in large part due more to the company (Glock) than to the gun. How many GOOD shooters do we see sponsored by Glock?...<p>How many SHOOTERS do we see sponsored by Glock?<p>I think, that if Glock would git off their tails, and run a better match (does anyone else out there despise GSSF?) such as a GSSF II w some actual MOVEMENT, and possibly sponsor a team of compitent shooters, we would see the Glock develop and possibly even overtake the STI/SV guns, in the A-C class mid-level shooter market.<p>The pros and the cons? well... i personally somewhat favor the Glock... believe it or not. The pros are deffinantly cost, (you can buy 3 open guns at least for the price of one, for goodness sake), reliability, availability, and durability.<p>But lets be honest. The gun was just not built for competiton. The trigger sux. Yeah.. if you eliminate a couple of safty features, the trigger can be light and short, but besides that its just sloppy as heck. And whats with the crappy plastic white-outed sight? Its a gun folks, not a camera. And can you say "drop-free"? Or how about "gun-smith"? How many competient glock-smiths do you know, versus 1911 smiths?<p>There are some darn good ones, don't get me wrong. For instance, the GM i was speaking of earlier, he had his bomars installed by some gunsmith in AZ ( i can't remember the name... Zodiac comes to mind, but don't quote me on this folks), and his workmanship was realllllllly good. It looked almost facotry. I really like that idea.... those sights improve the guns shootability by about 150%. Have you ever gone to a match with your Glock, and thought, ok, 58% humidity, 120grn lead today, 5.2 powder.... this is my 17 model, the one that usually shoots 3 in right, 2 in left at 50, so... i should hold 3 in high at 15yrds? Trust me, this is not good when you have a headshot on a hostage covered target.<p>So, yeah, i don't hate glocks. One of the reasons i wrote this is because i was trying to figure out what made some guys think that because another persons using different/weird tools, they automatically are either crazy or just plain suck. Got any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDean Posted January 24, 2002 Share Posted January 24, 2002 I was expecting the "trigger" as the weak point of the Glock, who wasn't? You can get a Master class trigger on yer Glock with a 3.5 connector, and some sort of over-travel stop. Who shoots with the Glock factory sights anymore (serious shooters I mean)? Kartozian ring a bell (Az Gunsmith)? All my mags drop-free with the Grams base-pads on them. Even the Non-Drop free perform a friction-free-fall. If they don't, take some steel wool to them and they will..... Glocks don't need "gunsmiths", they just need to be fed,..a lot! Have you ever gone to a match with your Glock, and thought, ok, 58% humidity, 120grn lead today, 5.2 powder.... this is my 17 model, the one that usually shoots 3 in right, 2 in left at 50, so... i should hold 3 in high at 15yrds? If you're shooting soft lead through your stock barrel, you might be asking for in-accuracy. The gun can only do so much........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted January 24, 2002 Share Posted January 24, 2002 GSSF is a great place to introduce new shooters to competition and organized shooting in general. In that respect, it has succeeded beyond anyone's wildest expectations. It has a huge base of everyday gun owners. IPSC and USPSA need to lure some of these shooters onto our side of the fence. GSSF isn't a problem, it's a golden opportunity. Glock may not sponsor shooters directly, but through GSSF, they sure as hell are doing their share to promote shooting. Let's give them a little credit for the effort. As far as a Glock's suitability for competition goes, it is what it is. It's capability, even with extensive modifications, will probably never equal that of a true Limited / Open blaster. But for $500, It's an absolutely excellent vehicle for a shooter to run up the classes on his/her way to GM. All the principles are the same no matter what gun you run. Eric (Edited by EricW at 11:14 pm on Jan. 23, 2002) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Custom Glock Racing Posted January 24, 2002 Share Posted January 24, 2002 Being one of "those guys" with a race glock I think its cool, but Im a bit biased. I'd look at his gear, see what can be improved and make suggestions. Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBurkett Posted January 24, 2002 Share Posted January 24, 2002 TDEAN, I am wondering about your post. So do you think Kartozian is a serious shooter or are you making fun of gunsmithing on a glock? Huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grassy knoll Posted January 24, 2002 Share Posted January 24, 2002 We talk about this in the van all the way to the matches and all the way back, 3 of us have Paras and 3 of us have Glocks Glock - pull trigger goes bang Para - $ 2500 + pull trigger goes bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPQRsniper Posted January 24, 2002 Author Share Posted January 24, 2002 Nah, wasnt Kartozian. Sorry... just can't grasp the name, tip of my tounge you know?<p>Yes, with a 3.5 connector.... but it still has the long take up, and a recovery stroke about as long as its barrel.<p>No one does use the factory sights. And the defensive guys always change them out for tritium or equivilent. Which makes me wonder.... Why do they put those POS things on there any way? If this is supposed to be the best gun since sliced bread, why not raise the price by $10 and put some quality sights on the thing. I'm running Heine, and they're non-adjustable, but at least they work better than those cumbersom nobs on the slide that Glock installs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted January 24, 2002 Share Posted January 24, 2002 I shoot an STI Edge 1911 (err - 2011- whatever) and a 9mm Glock in USPSA. Some thoughts: No one ever asks who built my Glock. Glock: $499 new in 93 w/ 1 highcap; STI $1000 used w/ no mags in 2001; day at an USPSA match: priceless. 9mm loaded to minor recoils less than .45 loaded to major (duh). Glock: >3.5 lb trigger w/ connector and reduced power striker spring - DIY gunsmithing. STI: 2.75 lb trigger w/ stock parts and a total of $100 worth of gunsmithing plus down time to always take it over there (though trigger reset is shorter). Personally don't want a lighter trigger than 2.5/2.75 lbs. Agree that the 1911 crowd (in general) needs more of a "live and let live" attitude about tupperware. We are all shooters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpty1 Posted January 24, 2002 Share Posted January 24, 2002 Let's face it....most all factory sights are crap regardless of gun type or manufacturer. How many non-custom, over the counter guns can you pick up and not need to put new sights on and have trigger work done on to get them on par with what most shooters expect in a match pistol? There may be a few, but not many. To me, it's all a matter of a starting point and where you end up. You can spend a ton of money on a Glock too if you want. Let's take a limited or Lim-10 G35 roughly priced at $550 and add the following: some trigger jobs cost upwards of $200. Barsto barrel $185. Sights roughly $100 and probably over twice that if you melt Bomars. Tungsten guide rod $75. Titanium striker and plunger $100. These components alone push the $1300 mark. That's certainly S_I price territory if you're shooting limited or lim-10. In a production gun however, I feel a Glock is as good as it gets. If I'm going to spend upwards of $1300, then a S_I is a no brainer. That STI contingency program is hard to turn down. I think Glock is doing a lot for USPSA. They contributed 3 guns as dedicated prizes to the top 3 production shooters at last years limited nationals. They set up a demo booth, and gave away another pistol to those participants in a drawing at the awards ceremony. Not too shabby IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted January 24, 2002 Share Posted January 24, 2002 Zodiac... Kodiak... Don Golembieski? Is that the Arizona gunsmith you are thinking of? I plan to get a G17 for USPSA Production, GSSF Stockmeister and Unlimited/Master, and IDPA SSP and ESP. The only things I plan to change are the sights. Maybe a drop-in 3.5# connector. I don't think the triggers are that bad; some are more gritty than others. For all intents and purposes I can shoot them as fast as sub-2-pound 1911 triggers. I wonder how many of the Glock trigger bashers don't have the sense to not let the trigger fully reset. Oh, there is somebody locally who shoots stock sights very accurately. (The freak!) Things I don't like about the Glock: sights, grip angle and pointability, ergonomics for an Enos-style grip, maybe/maybe-not drop-free magazines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDean Posted January 24, 2002 Share Posted January 24, 2002 TDEAN, I am wondering about your post. So do you think Kartozian is a serious shooter or are you making fun of gunsmithing on a glock? Huh? MattBurkett, you've roto-tilled my words. I'm responding the SPQR's post in order of his thoughts.... "......he had his bomars installed by some gunsmith in AZ i can't remember the name... Zodiac comes to mind..." So naturally I thought of 1) Arizona 2) "Z" in the name and 3) Installation of Bo-Mar sights. Matt of CGR fit all the above. In defense of my other comments, SPQR wrote: "...Or how about "gun-smith"? How many competient glock-smiths do you know, versus 1911 smiths...." Well, I personally don't think Glocks need the level of of "gunsmithing" skill that 1911's does. Just load the thing and pull the trigger... Same page? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPQRsniper Posted January 24, 2002 Author Share Posted January 24, 2002 Agree that the 1911 crowd (in general) needs more of a "live and let live" attitude about tupperware. We are all shooters. --Carlos Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBurkett Posted January 24, 2002 Share Posted January 24, 2002 TDean, no roto-tilling intended. Just trying to understand the meaning. Sorry. :-) Actually yes, the 1911 to do it right requires more skill in machining etc. There are only four gunsmiths in the country that can touch my 1911's other than the SVI factory. The thing on the Glocks is that it is an unknown area of gunsmithing. Matt Kartozian does one hell of a job on them and I don't think anyone else touches him for work on a Glock. They don't necessarily need it, but, they benifit from it. It depends on what task you want to accomplish with the gun. For carry, leave it pretty much alone or get customglock.com carry package. For competition you can actually do quite a bit. Take care, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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