Bullet Size Versus Velocity and Recoil

[jmcmanis]

I am using Accurate #2. I have been loading 4 grains with OAL at 1.27 with 124 gr CMJ bullets and was pushing about 920 feet per second. I was loading light because it had less felt recoil. Our local gun club doesn't enforce power factor so it was no issue.

Now I am trying to work up a load. I'm thinking about 5.0 Grains at 1.26. This should push about 1130 feet per second. The recoil is pretty intense. I am using a 16 pound recoil spring. Would a lighter bullet reduce recoil or hurt it?

[G-ManBart]

I am using Accurate #2. I have been loading 4 grains with OAL at 1.27 with 124 gr CMJ bullets and was pushing about 920 feet per second. I was loading light because it had less felt recoil. Our local gun club doesn't enforce power factor so it was no issue. You mean other than the whole rules/cheating thing?

Now I am trying to work up a load. I'm thinking about 5.0 Grains at 1.26. This should push about 1130 feet per second. The recoil is pretty intense. I am using a 16 pound recoil spring. Would a lighter bullet reduce recoil or hurt it?

Recoil was intense? You've got some issues to work through if you think a 140PF load creates intense recoil. My wife, 5'2" and 105lbs, shoots considerably hotter ammo out of her Kahr PM9....all 12oz of it.

A heavier bullet will soften recoil.

[jmcmanis]

We shoot IPSC style competitions. Were not really an affiliate through IPSC. We don't do the whole "Big Scene" were just local.

The recoil doesn't seem like a lot, but, after shooting 920 feet per second 1100 is a bit of a difference.

Have you loaded lighter bullets and heavier bullets together? Did you Chrony them? How much of a difference was there?

[G-ManBart]

I've loaded and compared 115, 124/125, 130 and 147gr bullets in 9mm using the same powders and similar power factors and the 147s were the softest feeling. Heavy bullet, smaller powder charge equals softer feel...the same is true of other cartridges as well (in non-compensated guns). I'm not at home, so I don't have my data on hand, but if you want something soft feeling, the 147s are the way to go if your gun will shoot them accurately. R,

[Hi-Power Jack]

I am using Accurate #2. I have been loading 4 grains with OAL at 1.27 with 124 gr CMJ bullets and was pushing about 920 feet per second. I was loading light because it had less felt recoil. Our local gun club doesn't enforce power factor so it was no issue.

Now I am trying to work up a load. I'm thinking about 5.0 Grains at 1.26. This should push about 1130 feet per second. The recoil is pretty intense. I am using a 16 pound recoil spring. Would a lighter bullet reduce recoil or hurt it?

What gun are you using? Why are you changing from 4 gr to 5 gr, if you're looking

for light recoil?

The cheapest bullets are the lighter bullets (115 gr) - and they get more expensive

the heavier you go - if you can get away with 4 gr, why not just stay there and

save some money and some recoil?

[bikerburgess]

Just because you local matches don't run a crono dosen't mean you shouldn't make minimum power factor.

As for recoil for the least felt recoil use the heaviest bullet you gun will shoot well and a fast powder. Depending on the gun you are using you can also play with recoil and or main springs to change how the recoil is felt and how well the gun cycles. Lighter springs tend to have less muzzle flip for me and feel better but ymmv.

Mike

[twodownzero]

He didn't say his local matches didn't chrono. He said they're not sanctioned at all, and for all you know, he hasn't violated any rules by using the lower power ammo.

I'm going to second G-man and recommend a 147 grain bullet.

[DWFAN]

I dont feel much difference between a 125gr @ 1080 and a 147gr at 920. I would suggest not making such a drastic jump in powder charge and run something at about 132powerfactor. Maybe 4.5gr instead of 5gr.

What gun are you using a 16lb recoil spring ? do you use the gun to carry or home defense ? or just a range tool ?

[jmcmanis]

It's an elite match. It's just a range gun. I had a couple issues with knocking a couple steel down is the only reason I was upping the powder.

[Nealio]

First of all we should all get on the same page for our description of "recoil". If you have 2 loads with the same energy: one with a light bullet and one with a heavy bullet, then the heavier bullet is going to "recoil" softer, but it will cause your barrel to flip up more. The lighter bullet will have a sharper and more recoil, but with way less barrel flip. I would think barrel flip is worse for competition. I load all my loads with lighter bullets because I like them to shoot faster/flatter and I'd rather have the sharp recoil pulse than a lot of barrel flip.

For example when I shoot my 10mm with 155gr bullets going 1400+ fps, it doesn't flip up much, but you feel the recoil a lot in your hand. Then if I shoot a 230 ball .45 ACP round (which has 2/3 the energy) out of my 1911, I don't get any of the punishment on my hand, but the barrel flips up a lot more. But the way PowerFactor is calculated, you can have a load with less energy that will come in with a higher power factor with more energy. I'm guessing that is why people run 147 grain bullets in a 9mm?? (side rant: PowerFactor is a joke)

I recently switched to 100gr bullets in my 9mm and I like it a lot more. This new 9mm steel load is a 100gr Berry's with 7.0gr of Power Pistol. I haven't chrono'd it yet but I'm guessing 1200-1300. Our matches are non-sanctioned and there isn't any power factor calculations.

[Sarge]

First of all we should all get on the same page for our description of "recoil". If you have 2 loads with the same energy: one with a light bullet and one with a heavy bullet, then the heavier bullet is going to "recoil" softer, but it will cause your barrel to flip up more. The lighter bullet will have a sharper and more recoil, but with way less barrel flip. I would think barrel flip is worse for competition. I load all my loads with lighter bullets because I like them to shoot faster/flatter and I'd rather have the sharp recoil pulse than a lot of barrel flip.

For example when I shoot my 10mm with 155gr bullets going 1400+ fps, it doesn't flip up much, but you feel the recoil a lot in your hand. Then if I shoot a 230 ball .45 ACP round (which has 2/3 the energy) out of my 1911, I don't get any of the punishment on my hand, but the barrel flips up a lot more. But the way PowerFactor is calculated, you can have a load with less energy that will come in with a higher power factor with more energy. I'm guessing that is why people run 147 grain bullets in a 9mm?? (side rant: PowerFactor is a joke)

[CocoBolo]

First of all we should all get on the same page for our description of "recoil". If you have 2 loads with the same energy: one with a light bullet and one with a heavy bullet, then the heavier bullet is going to "recoil" softer, but it will cause your barrel to flip up more. The lighter bullet will have a sharper and more recoil, but with way less barrel flip. I would think barrel flip is worse for competition. I load all my loads with lighter bullets because I like them to shoot faster/flatter and I'd rather have the sharp recoil pulse than a lot of barrel flip.

For example when I shoot my 10mm with 155gr bullets going 1400+ fps, it doesn't flip up much, but you feel the recoil a lot in your hand. Then if I shoot a 230 ball .45 ACP round (which has 2/3 the energy) out of my 1911, I don't get any of the punishment on my hand, but the barrel flips up a lot more. But the way PowerFactor is calculated, you can have a load with less energy that will come in with a higher power factor with more energy. I'm guessing that is why people run 147 grain bullets in a 9mm?? (side rant: PowerFactor is a joke)

I shoot AASA which has no power factor http://www.americanactionshooting.com so I can Identify with the power factor end of thing. I have shot EAA steel Witness and am familiar with those guns. I've never used AA#2. I personally like the 124/125 in 9 mm. I can ride along with most of it, but that 16# recoil spring needs to go. That is way to heavy for a 9 mm. Get an assortment of springs starting at 9# going up to 14# and try each spring till you find the one that puts a smile on your face. Normally I shoot full power loads in these matches 170+pf, but on those occasions when I feel reckless I shoot what I call the Mouse Fart Load, its strong enough to poke holes all the way thru the card board but still sounds & feels like an airsoft. Ok what is a Mouse Fart load that is 3.8gr of WST behind a 124/125gr Jacketed bullet, its enough to run the gun and knock down poppers but will not make Minor Power factor, it takes 4.7 to make minor. I would say you are a recoil-a-phobic, so do some bill drills, that is 1 to three targets set at < 10 yards and you draw and put 6 shots in it as fast a you can (one target), try to make A's it makes the drill more usefull. When you can break 2.25 seconds with all A's you have broken your phobia. With that 16# spring you are going to have to watch the sights as it will be pointing over the moon at about the third shot, you don't want one going over the berm. Un-compensated gun heavier bullets faster powder makes for less flip and recoil, provided the recoil system is tuned with the appropriate spring.

Edited June 11, 2010 by CocoBolo

[jmcmanis]

First of all we should all get on the same page for our description of "recoil". If you have 2 loads with the same energy: one with a light bullet and one with a heavy bullet, then the heavier bullet is going to "recoil" softer, but it will cause your barrel to flip up more. The lighter bullet will have a sharper and more recoil, but with way less barrel flip. I would think barrel flip is worse for competition. I load all my loads with lighter bullets because I like them to shoot faster/flatter and I'd rather have the sharp recoil pulse than a lot of barrel flip.

For example when I shoot my 10mm with 155gr bullets going 1400+ fps, it doesn't flip up much, but you feel the recoil a lot in your hand. Then if I shoot a 230 ball .45 ACP round (which has 2/3 the energy) out of my 1911, I don't get any of the punishment on my hand, but the barrel flips up a lot more. But the way PowerFactor is calculated, you can have a load with less energy that will come in with a higher power factor with more energy. I'm guessing that is why people run 147 grain bullets in a 9mm?? (side rant: PowerFactor is a joke)

I shoot AASA which has no power factor http://www.americanactionshooting.com so I can Identify with the power factor end of thing. I have shot EAA steel Witness and am familiar with those guns. I've never used AA#2. I personally like the 124/125 in 9 mm. I can ride along with most of it, but that 16# recoil spring needs to go. That is way to heavy for a 9 mm. Get an assortment of springs starting at 9# going up to 14# and try each spring till you find the one that puts a smile on your face. Normally I shoot full power loads in these matches 170+pf, but on those occasions when I feel reckless I shoot what I call the Mouse Fart Load, its strong enough to poke holes all the way thru the card board but still sounds & feels like an airsoft. Ok what is a Mouse Fart load that is 3.8gr of WST behind a 124/125gr Jacketed bullet, its enough to run the gun and knock down poppers but will not make Minor Power factor, it takes 4.7 to make minor. I would say you are a recoil-a-phobic, so do some bill drills, that is 1 to three targets set at < 10 yards and you draw and put 6 shots in it as fast a you can (one target), try to make A's it makes the drill more usefull. When you can break 2.25 seconds with all A's you have broken your phobia. With that 16# spring you are going to have to watch the sights as it will be pointing over the moon at about the third shot, you don't want one going over the berm. Un-compensated gun heavier bullets faster powder makes for less flip and recoil, provided the recoil system is tuned with the appropriate spring.

I have an assortment of springs ranging from 6, 8, 10, 12, 14, and 16, and getting ready to order 18, and 20, just to play with. I think I'm going to work a load with about 1000fps. Not sure which spring I'll be using, Probably 12 or so. I was using the 10 pound spring with 124 gr bullet and 920fps and it was shooting rather flat. That should reduce recoil a bit and still have enough knockdown power for steel.

Also, the gun is a .38 super.. not a 9mm.

[XRe]

I would say you are a recoil-a-phobic, so do some bill drills, ... When you can break 2.25 seconds with all A's you have broken your phobia.

???

[CocoBolo]

First of all we should all get on the same page for our description of "recoil". If you have 2 loads with the same energy: one with a light bullet and one with a heavy bullet, then the heavier bullet is going to "recoil" softer, but it will cause your barrel to flip up more. The lighter bullet will have a sharper and more recoil, but with way less barrel flip. I would think barrel flip is worse for competition. I load all my loads with lighter bullets because I like them to shoot faster/flatter and I'd rather have the sharp recoil pulse than a lot of barrel flip.

For example when I shoot my 10mm with 155gr bullets going 1400+ fps, it doesn't flip up much, but you feel the recoil a lot in your hand. Then if I shoot a 230 ball .45 ACP round (which has 2/3 the energy) out of my 1911, I don't get any of the punishment on my hand, but the barrel flips up a lot more. But the way PowerFactor is calculated, you can have a load with less energy that will come in with a higher power factor with more energy. I'm guessing that is why people run 147 grain bullets in a 9mm?? (side rant: PowerFactor is a joke)

I shoot AASA which has no power factor http://www.americanactionshooting.com so I can Identify with the power factor end of thing. I have shot EAA steel Witness and am familiar with those guns. I've never used AA#2. I personally like the 124/125 in 9 mm. I can ride along with most of it, but that 16# recoil spring needs to go. That is way to heavy for a 9 mm. Get an assortment of springs starting at 9# going up to 14# and try each spring till you find the one that puts a smile on your face. Normally I shoot full power loads in these matches 170+pf, but on those occasions when I feel reckless I shoot what I call the Mouse Fart Load, its strong enough to poke holes all the way thru the card board but still sounds & feels like an airsoft. Ok what is a Mouse Fart load that is 3.8gr of WST behind a 124/125gr Jacketed bullet, its enough to run the gun and knock down poppers but will not make Minor Power factor, it takes 4.7 to make minor. I would say you are a recoil-a-phobic, so do some bill drills, that is 1 to three targets set at < 10 yards and you draw and put 6 shots in it as fast a you can (one target), try to make A's it makes the drill more usefull. When you can break 2.25 seconds with all A's you have broken your phobia. With that 16# spring you are going to have to watch the sights as it will be pointing over the moon at about the third shot, you don't want one going over the berm. Un-compensated gun heavier bullets faster powder makes for less flip and recoil, provided the recoil system is tuned with the appropriate spring.

I have an assortment of springs ranging from 6, 8, 10, 12, 14, and 16, and getting ready to order 18, and 20, just to play with. I think I'm going to work a load with about 1000fps. Not sure which spring I'll be using, Probably 12 or so. I was using the 10 pound spring with 124 gr bullet and 920fps and it was shooting rather flat. That should reduce recoil a bit and still have enough knockdown power for steel.

Also, the gun is a .38 super.. not a 9mm.

Good now were talking. 38 Super Minor shoots way softer than 9 mm. A good Mouse Fart Load for 38 Super is 5.0gr of WST with a 115gr Zero RN set at 1.235. Or use your 124/125gr with 4.8gr of WST. If you have a Classic slide start with a 9#. You might get away with a 10# spring but likely it will be very sluggish. These rounds will barley bump 125pf, 115 is right at 1100 and the 124/25 will be just over a 1000. You can load your 1.27 just maybe lose a few FPS. I don't think you need a 147gr bullet, either the 115 or 124 will be plenty soft. Run some bill drills after a while you won't hear the gun and won't notice the recoil your focus will be on the shooting.

[98sr20ve]

It's an elite match. It's just a range gun. I had a couple issues with knocking a couple steel down is the only reason I was upping the powder.

124 gr going 1080fps is going to knock steel down just fine.

147 going 900fps is going to feel softer.

I have done both.