.38 special load help needed

[vaknah]

im having issues reaching pf.

K frame 4"

using 160gr bayou (actual weight is 162 +/- .1)

i have been using clays

2.7 gr = 690fps

2.9 gr = 720fps

1.50 oal

hodgdon reloding manual lists 3.1 as max for 38 special.

because the chambers are +p rated i went a little over and loaded 3.2-3.3 (one lee disk up)

after shooting a match i chrono'd, and the average was around 740.. which left me at 119.8 pf

i am trying to load 132 pf so i can use it for both icore and idpa with some comfort.

i am not sure if the fact that i had been shooting the gun for 350ish rounds before chrono could be the cause of my problems.

would this really slow my bullets down by 75 fps from what i expected?

i would prefer not to have to buy a new powder, but i dont know how to make this work.

help please, im very frustrated.

[AzShooter]

I don't use Clays, but my Lyman reloading manual has 3.0 as the Max load with a 160 grain LRN for a velocity of 854 wich would be perfect. OAL should be 1.55. Make sure you are using enough crimp if not enough you will never get the velocity you need and won't get consisten speeds over the chrono.

I use 4.0 grains of Bullseye and Solo 1000 with a 160 grain moly bullet. Both give me 134 pf and group into 1 to 1 1/2 inches at 25 yards from a bench.

Good luck.

[kevinj308]

I have to run 3.4 of clays with a 158gr LRN. I don't have the OAL in front of me. This is in a 4" K frame model 10. There's some threads on this in the revo forum.

Hope this helps, be careful.

Kevin

[Beladran]

ditch clays brother, 4.0 gr of 231 out of my model 64-5 slinging a 145gr swc gets me about 128 pf..

[21 shooter]

I'll second the recommendation of using WW 231. It is economical and gives really good accuracy out of my K frame. There are several powders that will give you the results you want, but in my area I have always been able to get 231 and the price is pretty good.

[Brewski]

Clays is an excellent powder for .38 spl - it's clean and consistant. Lots of guys I shoot revo with in IDPA use 3.9 grains of Clays with a 158 moly bullet to get around 128-130 PF. This is with Federal SPs, mixed brass, 1.5 COL and a .374-5 crimp. I shot a ton of this load with excellent results before changing to Solo 1000. This is a +P load but it is fine for any modern K-frame.

[kevinj308]

You don't really mean 3.9 right?

[Rick B]

I have loaded thousands of rounds of 3.4 Clays with a 160 moly coated bullet at 150 oal. Great load with no signs of pressure problems.

[Darrell]

You won't make power factor with the clays load. With Bayou bullets I use 4.4 of 231 and 3.8 of American Select for a PF of 125-127. OAL is 1.545. Groups 1.56 inches from a ransom rest at 25 yds for a 6 shot avg.out of my 686SSR

Edited June 2, 2010 by Darrell

[Brewski]

You don't really mean 3.9 right?

I do mean 3.9. I've run as low as 3.7, but to get a consistant avereage power factor of 128-130 for IDPA in all my game guns (67-1, 15-3, 65-5, 66-3 and 686-6) I've settled on 3.9 Clays with a 158 moly bullet at COL 1.5 and Federal small primers (standard or match). I also use this load with straight lead 158 grn bullets.

[kevinj308]

You don't really mean 3.9 right?

I do mean 3.9. I've run as low as 3.7, but to get a consistant avereage power factor of 128-130 for IDPA in all my game guns (67-1, 15-3, 65-5, 66-3 and 686-6) I've settled on 3.9 Clays with a 158 moly bullet at COL 1.5 and Federal small primers (standard or match). I also use this load with straight lead 158 grn bullets.

No offense meant, just sounds pretty hot to me and definitely off the chart as far as published data goes. I thought maybe you were referring to Universal Clays rather than straight Clays. With the Universal it would be right in the ballpark.

Stay safe

Kevin

[Rather-B-Huntin]

I've found through a LOT of careful testing that you can push Clays beyond the books without signigicant increase in pressure. I've been running 3.1 gr. under my own cast 152 gr. bullets for practice and intend to start working my way toward 3.5 soon.

[RePete]

im having issues reaching pf.

K frame 4"

using 160gr bayou (actual weight is 162 +/- .1)

i have been using clays

2.7 gr = 690fps

2.9 gr = 720fps

1.50 oal

hodgdon reloding manual lists 3.1 as max for 38 special.

because the chambers are +p rated i went a little over and loaded 3.2-3.3 (one lee disk up)

after shooting a match i chrono'd, and the average was around 740.. which left me at 119.8 pf

i am trying to load 132 pf so i can use it for both icore and idpa with some comfort.

i am not sure if the fact that i had been shooting the gun for 350ish rounds before chrono could be the cause of my problems.

would this really slow my bullets down by 75 fps from what i expected?

i would prefer not to have to buy a new powder, but i dont know how to make this work.

help please, im very frustrated.

I was running the chrono stage at the NY State IDPA Championships and talking to Craig Buckland on Saturday and he has 2 loads. One I have used but the other I haven't.

158gr Plated

4.4gr/TiteGroup

1.500 OAL.

158gr Plated

4.8gr/N320

1.500 OAL.

When I tested his N320 load, at the match, it made PF (I don't remember what) but what I do remember is that it felt really nice. This will be my load from here on.

[Cherryriver]

As for these last two loads:

158gr Plated

4.4gr/TiteGroup

1.500 OAL.

158gr Plated

4.8gr/N320

1.500 OAL.

That first, working from dim memory, left me missing PF at an IDPA State match by a whisker and I went home zero.

No more TiteGroup for this guy. I hate the way the gun glows cherry red when you shoot a whole box in a hurry.

The VV320 load is my preferred .38 match load, the cleanest-running load I've ever put through a revolver. In my 4" Colts, it chronos close to 900fps, way more than you need. I just stick with 4.7gr and don't worry if I go snubnose.

If you have trouble finding VV320, good old Unique is still a super powder for .38 Special. 4.7gr will make factor with room to spare and still is "book", if your book is a decade old. Heck, back in the day, 5.0gr was considered a standard max load with a 158 SWC. Not that I'm suggesting that.

The current version runs clean if you're anywhere near max and it gets a good burn. It's cheap and can cover a huge range of calibers, even 9 and .40. Pretty much anything except .45 Auto, where it generates too much recoil compared to WST or Bullseye.

It may just be that citing Unique just makes me sound old.

Edited June 28, 2010 by Cherryriver

[extremist]

My experience, and granted I was new at it and worked for 2 months developing my IDPA load for my 4" Smith 686 for Louisiana State 2010, I could never make PF with N320 or Titegroup. Tried AA#5 and W231 also, never could make it consistently.

It COULD have been because I wasn't crimping enough. I ended up going with 6.1 N350 and a tight crimp to finally make PF for LA State.

158gr Plated Flat Point bullet.

6.1 N350

FWIW - and I stopped shooting SSR for IDPA - just wasn't as much fun as CDP

James

[Cherryriver]

Don't know about CDP being more fun than a six-shooter with speedloaders. There's so much less to do.