STI 2011 40's

[blaster113]

I am considering buying an STI 2011 gun, probably the Eagle. A couple of questions: I have heard that they will only feed rounds that are loaded pretty long, is this true? Also, it seems that many USPSA shooters' guns don't slide lock after the last round is fired. Is this set up this way on purpose? If so, why? Is it a function of the gun itself or the magazine?

I believe the long loaded .40's came into being for feeding reliability. Some .40 2011/1911 guns will feed factory length ammo reliably; some won't. My Brazos tuned Edge will eat just about anything, including duty hollowpoints. It only pukes with Blazer 180 grain aluminum cased ammo (189 power factor). Another guy I shoot with has an STI tuned by a top notch smith that won't feed factory stuff at all.

[Carmine]

Well, having just joined this forum this morning......here's my two cents.

I have the STI Eagle in .40.

It's been configured with the full length dust cover and the Bedell Heavy stipple grips.

Now the gun will feed factory lenght ammo all day and night...but I reload my ammo at 1.205" OAL.

As most of the members of this forum who use the same gun (STI Edge or Eagle)will tell you these guns all needed some work as to get "match ready".

My gun has only the Eagle Slide, Barrel and Frame as factory...thought they too have been "fixed"...but prety well eveything ells on this gun is from SVI, DAA and EGW.

So back to the begining of this forum..should you buy an STI Eagel in.40...my answer is Yes....but it will need to worked on as to work for you and your loads.

Ciao.

[Sullie]

Thanks for all of your responses.

Here are a few more questions: why are the mags so stinkin' expensive? STI mags look like they are $60 apiece, but from what I gather, don't work well unless properly tuned. STI offers tuned mags for double the price. Why does STI offer the $60 mags if they don't work? What's involved in tuning mags? Can I do it myself?

[Beebs317]

Sullie, I wondered the same thing. Don't get caught up in the arms race. My off the shelf STI 40 140mm mags work great! I put Dawson basepads on them, and use the same spring & followers??? 19 rounds always feed, load and function. I read about "tuned" mags working with 20 rounds?? Anybody out there??

[sfinney]

For what it is worth, it has been known to happen, and I have seem it happen, that when the slide locks back an you use to much force on your reload you can pop a round out or stand it up causing a malfunction. We all have used enough force one time or another to make the slide release on its own.

I have never had any of those things happen with a 1911 or 2011. R,

I have, but the mags in question had a little to much spread to the lips and let the round "jump" up a little to easily.

A more common thing on the over exuberant mag change with slide lock, is ramming the mag into the bottom of the extractor, and bend/break it. See that all the time. Also, I remember once at an Area match around 94 pr 95 (when some people were still shooting .45 single stacks in Limited with 10 round mags) a friend of mine somehow jammed a 10 round Wilson mag so far up in his gun it locked up rock solid, couldn't get it out or drop the slide, and DNF'ed the stage.

Stuff happens.

For Lim or Open, I do not like to load from Slide Lock, and never (well, hardly ever ) plan to. Learn to count, know how many extra shots you have per planned mag chnage, and not having your slide lock back shouldn't be a problem. (easier said than done, I know)

[Aloha Robert]

Been shooting .40 long time, these are my conclussions.

On, OAL some guns definitely prefer longer OAL especially with semi wad cutter or truncated bullets. I load mine 1.240

Longer OAL definitely helps with pressure managment. There are many stories of case head seperation and cracked cases with shorter OAL. The problem with fast burning powders and short OAL is quick pressure spike. But for 40 you need a quick burning powder that is fully burned by time it exits barrel or you get rocket effect which increases recoil, ergo need for a fast burning powder. This favors larger case capacity as in 10mm or .40 loaded long.

You will get some but not as much as you think more PF from 6" rather than 5" gun and additional boost from slippery bullets like precission black bullets. Jacketed bullets need most powder

You will get a lot of highly opinionated recommended loads. Those that want a snappier feeling gun go for lighter bullets, those that want a softer feeling recoil will go with heavier bullet and faster burning ( but less volume )powder like N320. More case volume defitely helps in term of less case head seperation and less tendency to primer flow with heavier bullets.

You get also lots of opinions on whether or not to have slide lock back. Many of top shooters dont. I like it because in Hawaii we get lots of ten round gotcha courses and to me a dry reload with slide locked back is way faster than click (no boom) be surprised, reload, rack and reaquire. Getting an STI/SVI to reliably hold back is pain in behind because manufacturers have not standarized mag wells, mags, mag catches, and slide stops. Add the variable of springs and followers and you got a mish mash Headache that make you want to shoot production.

If you load long make SURE you get extra freebore in barrel or you may have jams.

Edited June 2, 2010 by Aloha Robert

[ninefan]

Rather than just speculate on pressure relationships with various OALs, here is some info that came from Quickload:

1035 fps, 165gr JHP, 5.4 gr Titegroup, 1.185" OAL => 25489 psi

Bullet travel at PMAX .23"

1035 fps, 165gr JHP, 5.15 gr Titegroup, 1.135" OAL => 27627 psi

Bullet travel at PMAX .20"

There does appear to be some difference (8% in this case) in peak pressures. Whether the difference is important would be another discussion altogether.

[ShooterSteve]

About the mags, I purchased a Dawson tuning kit, and self tuned my mags. I did it because I like tinkering with stuff myself (often to the detriment of my equipment), but in this case things worked out. I run STI 140s, Grams springs and followers. I get 20+1, and it feeds very reliably. There are some tuners out there who may get another round in theirs, but mine work pretty good like they are and I'm happy with them. I would recommend the kit if you are a person who can do a little work and use some common sense. I did not check the capacity of my combination before I started so I don't know if I actually gained any capacity,but the mags feed very well. Also, the Grams pads locked my slide back with one round left, so I just went ahead and took some material off so it won't lock back. If I mess up and take extra shots or what ever, and run dry, well then I just do a mag change, rack the slide and keep going. No use getting mad because I messed up. Heck, we are out shooting. I want to have a good time. The alternative is going to work. I'd rather muff a reload and laugh about it than be at work...

[twodownzero]

Rather than just speculate on pressure relationships with various OALs, here is some info that came from Quickload:

1035 fps, 165gr JHP, 5.4 gr Titegroup, 1.185" OAL => 25489 psi

Bullet travel at PMAX .23"

1035 fps, 165gr JHP, 5.15 gr Titegroup, 1.135" OAL => 27627 psi

Bullet travel at PMAX .20"

There does appear to be some difference (8% in this case) in peak pressures. Whether the difference is important would be another discussion altogether.

Exactly.

Pressure = force / area

[Aloha Robert]

Rather than just speculate on pressure relationships with various OALs, here is some info that came from Quickload:

1035 fps, 165gr JHP, 5.4 gr Titegroup, 1.185" OAL => 25489 psi

Bullet travel at PMAX .23"

1035 fps, 165gr JHP, 5.15 gr Titegroup, 1.135" OAL => 27627 psi

Bullet travel at PMAX .20"

There does appear to be some difference (8% in this case) in peak pressures. Whether the difference is important would be another discussion altogether.

Another discussion altogether is right, we could discuss loads forever. But for newer shooters remember any "pressure" specs you get are VERY approximate. Really the pressure is not static but a (very)fast function of time. It is the spikes of pressure that cause failure. And most guys that have been arround .40 long enough will tell you it is VERY easy to overpressure a .40 case (in USPSA).

Back to original thread, I bought one of the original "Edge" .40 pistols from STI back in 90's and it did need a lot of work before right but it is still going strong now and has had tons of rounds. I think anybody who gets a competition gun "out of the box" or even from great gunsmith usually will have a lot of work to do before it is "just right" for prime time.

[Sullie]

It sounds like the way to go would be to just buy the standard STI mags and see if they are reliable. If they are not, then worry about tuning.

[ShooterSteve]

If I was buying additional mags for my Edge, I'd buy tubes, Dawson base pads and a Grams spring and follower. My new stock STI "20 rd" mags would only hold 17, and that was extremely tight. I know some people have had better results, but I was pretty let down. After the Dawson kit tune up, and the pads and spring kits, they work very well and I am very happy. I am not going to jinx my self and say that I've never had a malf since I did that work to them in Dec....oops

[twodownzero]

I have 4 Dawson tuned mags with STI followers, Dawson SNLs, and STI tubes. One of them will hold 20 but it is not reloadable like that no matter how forceful one is. The others will hold 19.

[usmc1974]

my mags are 17 round factory but, gun and mags run 100%.

[Sullie]

If I was buying additional mags for my Edge, I'd buy tubes, Dawson base pads and a Grams spring and follower. My new stock STI "20 rd" mags would only hold 17, and that was extremely tight. I know some people have had better results, but I was pretty let down. After the Dawson kit tune up, and the pads and spring kits, they work very well and I am very happy. I am not going to jinx my self and say that I've never had a malf since I did that work to them in Dec....oops

It appears that it is cheaper to buy complete mags from Dawson and replace the guts with grams, than to buy the STI tube, Dawson basepad, and Grams guts separately.

[EkuJustice]

It is a little cheaper to buy the mags and change the guts but not by much. The main difference is one you have a dawson base pad the other you dont. I would reather have the dawson base pad than the factory plastic one

[mobile4]

I am thinking about an Eagle 5.0 but i dont have a stocking dealer anywhere near me. Can anyone give me an aproximate grip circunfrance. I have small hands and I have trouble with a Para double stack and i am wondering if someone can tell me how big the grip is compaired to some other common gun. Thanks Tom

[Sullie]

I am thinking about an Eagle 5.0 but i dont have a stocking dealer anywhere near me. Can anyone give me an aproximate grip circunfrance. I have small hands and I have trouble with a Para double stack and i am wondering if someone can tell me how big the grip is compaired to some other common gun. Thanks Tom

I don't know what the grip circumfrence is, sorry. I do know that it feels thinner and better than a para. The para has much more of a square front strap than the STI.

[Phil G]

I am thinking about an Eagle 5.0 but i dont have a stocking dealer anywhere near me. Can anyone give me an aproximate grip circunfrance. I have small hands and I have trouble with a Para double stack and i am wondering if someone can tell me how big the grip is compaired to some other common gun. Thanks Tom

My STI 2011 grip (measured just below the grip safety)

circumference - 5.5"

width - 1.3"

front to back - 2.07"

My Colt 1911 grip

circumference - 5.125"

width - 1.3"

front to back - 2.0"

Phil G

[mobile4]

Phil,

Thanks for the info. Tom

I am thinking about an Eagle 5.0 but i dont have a stocking dealer anywhere near me. Can anyone give me an aproximate grip circunfrance. I have small hands and I have trouble with a Para double stack and i am wondering if someone can tell me how big the grip is compaired to some other common gun. Thanks Tom

My STI 2011 grip (measured just below the grip safety)

circumference - 5.5"

width - 1.3"

front to back - 2.07"

My Colt 1911 grip

circumference - 5.125"

width - 1.3"

front to back - 2.0"

Phil G