Next Purchase: Shadow

[Jody Waring]

Going to compete in IPSC Production division and I bleieve a Shadow will soon find its way to my home. I was wondering for those who shoot them, could you give me some input? I will be shooting under the IPSC World rules, but what mods do you guys recommend, and personally what are your feelings in regards to bullet weight, powders, recoil spring weights etc... and does the comp. hammer make that big of a difference? I thank you all in advance for all of your input and look forward to all of your replies.

[burningsquirrels]

I'm not familiar with IPSC rules. I read pages 78 and 79 that describe production division. If it's allowed, I would respring the gun with #11 recoil and #15 mainspring, switch to the competition hammer (makes a big difference), and get some CZ competition sights with a 1.0mm front red fiber optic. For ammo, it seems common to pick a bullet in the 124-135 grain zone for soft recoil. If it is legal, the thin aluminum grips from czcustom.com and an extended magazine release button are nice additions as well.

[gunshrink]

Going to compete in IPSC Production division and I bleieve a Shadow will soon find its way to my home. I was wondering for those who shoot them, could you give me some input? I will be shooting under the IPSC World rules, but what mods do you guys recommend, and personally what are your feelings in regards to bullet weight, powders, recoil spring weights etc... and does the comp. hammer make that big of a difference? I thank you all in advance for all of your input and look forward to all of your replies.

Go to CZ Custom and get a Shadow already tuned - that is if they can sell out of the country. It already has all of the recommended stuff - trigger, sights, grip etc. Give them a call and see what would work. The price tag is 1200 but sure is a nice gun.

[Walküre]

If it's allowed, I would respring the gun with #11 recoil and #15 mainspring, switch to the competition hammer (makes a big difference), and get some CZ competition sights with a 1.0mm front red fiber optic.

Sights changes are allowed, item 20.3 in the appendix covering Production Division. That said, it's not essential to change a Shadow's stock sights, as they are already pretty decent. I myself also prefer green fibre over red.

I would think that springs would be okay, but the IPSC rulebook isn't definitively clear on this. FWIW, I run 10# recoil springs in my 9mm CZs. (I'm actually trying out an even lighter spring for my .40 Limited gun right now.)

For ammo, it seems common to pick a bullet in the 124-135 grain zone for soft recoil.

I run 147s. My current 9 minor load comes in at around 143PF and still feels softer to me than factory 115gr.

If it is legal, the thin aluminum grips from czcustom.com and an extended magazine release button are nice additions as well.

The extended release is standard equipment on the Shadow, so there's no need to do anything there. The grips are normally considered a "factory option" - that's how they are legal in USPSA. I would hope that IPSC is the same on this subject.

One mod that I absolutely had to have was the installation of the original-style 85C trigger. Shadows used to come with them, but now come with the thin new-style triggers, which I absolutely hate (the physical feel is drastically different).

[JorDanO]

I run an 11# recoil spring and 13# hammer spring. My CZ's seem to run better with 124's over 147 grain bullets. I use the factory sights on mine, they work fine. I haven't shot a Shadow without the comp hammer, but I would still most likely recommend getting it.

[Jody Waring]

Thanks for the replies guys, I have pretty well always shot open, and am making the transition to production. AFAIK if it is offered by the manufacturer, it is good to go. All of Angus' go fast goodies may not be. I will have to study up a little more. I had guessed lower rate recoil and mainsprings, comp. hammer and aluminum grips. Are the trigger springs as common of crapping out as some people have told me? As far as ammunition, everyone says 147 and I think N320. Do 124's really recoil that much more? What about muzzle flip? Thanks again!

[ChuckS]

Thanks for the replies guys, I have pretty well always shot open, and am making the transition to production. AFAIK if it is offered by the manufacturer, it is good to go. All of Angus' go fast goodies may not be. I will have to study up a little more. I had guessed lower rate recoil and mainsprings, comp. hammer and aluminum grips. Are the trigger springs as common of crapping out as some people have told me? As far as ammunition, everyone says 147 and I think N320. Do 124's really recoil that much more? What about muzzle flip? Thanks again!

Hi Jody,

I transitioned from Open to Production with an SP-01. I liked the 124s because the gun cycled crisply like my open gun. The 147s made the gun feel sluggish. With the heavy nose of the gun, flip is not much of an issue. I had 2 TRS break in 10K rounds. That was in 2006 so perhaps the springs are better now. Get some spares and know how to change them. You might look into a spare slide stop too. You may also want to talk to Angus about loads. I did

Have Fun,

Chuck

[-JQ-]

You won't have to worry about any muzzle flip.

Do what Angus tells you.

[Jody Waring]

Hi Chuck, thanks for the post. I have an email out to Angus and will see what he has to say. I likely will get a few spare springs etc.. and once I get the gun I will experiment with loads. I used to shoot my CZ75's and 85's alot, and I recall exactly what you said about the heavier bullets. The gun to me did feel much crisper with the 124's, and possibly with the heavy frame the flip will be minimal? I shot a friends Stock 2 last weekend and he uses 147gr ammo. It was like shooting a .22, I couldn't believe it. Experimentation is in order. I will take your advice and pick up a few spare stops, etc... thanks Chuck!

[oddjob]

Besides the ideas here I would get ready to buy new grips. The rubber ones don't seem to fit me, but they may fit you. I got a cheap wooden set from E-Bay and it fits great. I run a 10lb recoil spring based upon Matt Minks recommendation. I also use 130 Bear Creeks. I found that I had to use .358 diameter bullets or they tumble. I'm lucky that some of the guys I shoot with know the owner. I had a batch made for me at .358 diameter. Its a fine gun.

[ChuckS]

---snip--- The gun to me did feel much crisper with the 124's, and possibly with the heavy frame the flip will be minimal? --- snip ---

The first time I shot it, I said "Damn, this thing shoots like an open gun". 124's rock!

Later,

Chuck

[Jody Waring]

Hey Chuck, picked up my Shadow last night. I am just waiting for the rain to stop and I am headed to the range, if it doesn't stop raining,.. I am headed to the range Been a long couple of weeks since I initially decided what I was going to buy. I was torn between a Shadow and Stock 2. Will post later how I make out. I appreciate all the feedback by everyone

[Pezco]

As someone already said, get a Shadow already tuned by Angus. The trigger on my Shadow is to die for!

[Jody Waring]

Getting one of those into Canada likely would be nothing but grief. IPSC rules are pretty tight on what we can do to the guns, so we pretty much have to stick with parts that are produced by the factory; and smithing, and tuning for the most part is not allowed sadly. I am sure I will eventually get it exactly how I want it. Just excited now to try it out.

[ChuckS]

Hey Chuck, picked up my Shadow last night. I am just waiting for the rain to stop and I am headed to the range, if it doesn't stop raining,.. I am headed to the range Been a long couple of weeks since I initially decided what I was going to buy. I was torn between a Shadow and Stock 2. Will post later how I make out. I appreciate all the feedback by everyone

Jody,

Congratulations on your blessed event! I am sure you will be quite happy. You mentioned that you shot 75s and 85s but this is always a good article to review every now and then. "Fear Not, The Double Action Shot"

Enjoy,

Chuck

[Jody Waring]

Thanks Chuck!

[sig2009]

New Shadow Target is waiting at my dealer. Pick it up tomorrow!

[Jody Waring]

Did mangage to get a couple hundred rounds through the Shadow. I like it. Feels good, tracks good, and flip was minimal even with some of my hotter loads with 124gr FMJ. What I did notice was POI was quite high. Freehand at about 18m the gun's POI is about 2-1/2 to 3" high. Also hitting slightly to the left. If I were to switch out my front sight, would I go to the 6.5 or the 6.0 sight? I believe Angus reccommends the 6.5, I have an email out to him, just waiting for a reply. I think I also will go with the smaller 1.0mm dot, the 1.5 seems a little too big and I think for the dead on hold I want, the smaller dot won't wash out the target as much- say a plate at longer ranges. I appreciate all input, does anyone know if the spare hammer spring that comes with the newer Shadow's is a lighter one? I noticed it in the case last night, just wondering.

[dachness]

Did mangage to get a couple hundred rounds through the Shadow. I like it. Feels good, tracks good, and flip was minimal even with some of my hotter loads with 124gr FMJ. What I did notice was POI was quite high. Freehand at about 18m the gun's POI is about 2-1/2 to 3" high. Also hitting slightly to the left. If I were to switch out my front sight, would I go to the 6.5 or the 6.0 sight? I believe Angus reccommends the 6.5, I have an email out to him, just waiting for a reply. I think I also will go with the smaller 1.0mm dot, the 1.5 seems a little too big and I think for the dead on hold I want, the smaller dot won't wash out the target as much- say a plate at longer ranges. I appreciate all input, does anyone know if the spare hammer spring that comes with the newer Shadow's is a lighter one? I noticed it in the case last night, just wondering.

Would love to hear an update about how you are liking your gun.

[Jody Waring]

I Am loving the gun! But last night my club had a small match and I was plagued with hangups. I have been believing what some told me about the 10 round mags, and avoid them, so I switched to my small frame Tanfoglio open gun mags, still had the hangups. My buddy who is a new shooter had been plugging away at the match with zero issues with his shadow, and hitting everything he was aiming at. He offered some of his ammo to try and I shot the last fieldcourse, and the gun ran 100%. I did notice his ammo is loaded longer, and is a little hotter, so I am going to experiment with his measurements etc... and see if it helps. I have shot a few matches and have been really enjoying this gun alot. I have no regrets in buying it, it is a lot of fun to shoot, fits me perfect, and just feels so nice, the recoil and flip are just not an issue with this gun. When I get the ammo issue sorted out, I am going to put alot of rounds through it, I definitely have found a new home in Production division.

Edited July 9, 2010 by Jody Waring

[dachness]

Thanks for the update . I just placed an order for a Shadow Target yesterday, had the springs changed out to an 11lb recoil and 13 lb main. What kind of ammo are you using? Are you reloading?

[burningsquirrels]

Your mileage may vary, but you can try this one with no fear of going sub-minor:

125 grain jhp, 4.1 grn Titegroup, 1.090" OAL, about 139 PF out of mine. I know some that run the same bullet weight and OAL and use 3.9 grains of Titegroup to get about 128-129ish PF. We all use 10 or 11 pound recoil springs.

[dachness]

Your mileage may vary, but you can try this one with no fear of going sub-minor:

125 grain jhp, 4.1 grn Titegroup, 1.090" OAL, about 139 PF out of mine. I know some that run the same bullet weight and OAL and use 3.9 grains of Titegroup to get about 128-129ish PF. We all use 10 or 11 pound recoil springs.

Thanks for the recipe . What different powders have you tried? Do you recommend Titegroup? Right now I am trying to decide between VV N320, Ramshot Silhouette and Titegroup. Angus uses N320, mainly because it is cotton based and very easy on the barrel. A friend that shoots a Shadow custom tried N320 and Ramshot Silhouette and likes Silhouette better (burns cleaner, measures better).

[GeneBray]

Your mileage may vary, but you can try this one with no fear of going sub-minor:

125 grain jhp, 4.1 grn Titegroup, 1.090" OAL, about 139 PF out of mine. I know some that run the same bullet weight and OAL and use 3.9 grains of Titegroup to get about 128-129ish PF. We all use 10 or 11 pound recoil springs.

Thanks for the recipe . What different powders have you tried? Do you recommend Titegroup? Right now I am trying to decide between VV N320, Ramshot Silhouette and Titegroup. Angus uses N320, mainly because it is cotton based and very easy on the barrel. A friend that shoots a Shadow custom tried N320 and Ramshot Silhouette and likes Silhouette better (burns cleaner, measures better).

I've been using Titegroup for 9mm for 5 years. Much cheaper than VV powders. Can't speak for Ramshot Silhouette--never tried it. My load is 3.9 grs, 124/125 gr bullets (RN, JHP), COL 1.12", PF consistently between 129-131 using CED chrono, IR screens, in coffin.

Main spring is major component on how the pistol cycles. Most forget the slide's rear motion compresses the main spring.

Edited July 21, 2010 by GeneBray

[burningsquirrels]

Titegroup is just relatively cheap without being "too" dirty. VV N320 is a nicer powder, and is cleaner, but it's a significant price increase. Titegroup a.k.a. "TG" meters well and won't foul a gun after 500 rounds. As always, your mileage may vary.

I tried a few different powders like solo 1k, bullseye, american select, win231, imr 800x, unique, etc., etc... but in the end I just copied what i saw everyone else using. CZs are common enough and TG is a nice powder for the price. I figure it's popular for a reason, so I just stuck with it. never any problems and easy enough. i got tired of recipe testing. it was a lot of work and i wasn't really seeing any benefit from it.

My complete load is done with either a montana gold 124 jhp or a zero 125 jhp (depends on whichever i get cheaper) on top of a federal small pistol primer (mandatory because the 13# hammer spring has about 2-3 coils cut off). again, at 4.1 of TG at 1.090", i am running around 135-139 PF with either bullet depending on the weather. highest ever was 140 PF. recoil is negligible, but recoil is an opinion. the slide cycles nice and adequately fast with an 11# recoil spring.

on a side note i did use clays powder or a while. that stuff recoiled so soft it was unbelieveable... but you really had to work the chrono and watch pressure. i remember bumping just .1 grains and saw no speed increase, and i was only hovering at 127ish PF. i said to heck with gaming a load and just took a common recipe from local CZ shooters (3.9 TG) and put an extra .1 in there since they do about 128-130 PF. i just wanted the insurance. down the road i realized my scale was off and i was actually using 4.1 grains, which explained the higher PFs i was getting. i liked the way it ran, so i'm just left my press at 4.1 grains, lol.