Low Volume Precision Reloading

[Eric Scher]

I'm looking for input on a press for a specific job.

I'm finally ordering that 650 just as soon as I can get Brian on the phone, and that press is going to fill a very important and well defined role on my bench. But as good as it is at churning out LOT'S of ammo for me, there's one thing it's NOT good for. Very Low Volume Reloading.

I want to have a press specifically for loading very nice, very high quality, small batch match ammo. I mean starting with Lapua brass, measuring the powder by individual rounds on a precision scale, precise case prep, meplat uniforming, placing the high quality bullets by hand, the whole works. All for turning out like 20 rounds at a time for precision shooting, load testing, etc.

I was looking at possibly a Redding Ultramag or T-7 Turret Press. Then I saw the Sinclair 7/8-14 Benchrest Press, which looked like exactly the sort of thing I wanted, but I'm not actually certain that it is meant for the purpose I would put it to. Just a little while ago I came across the Harrell's stuff, especially the Harrell's Tooling Turret Press, wich can be had with 2, 3 or 4 position Turrets. Interestingly, they all seem to be priced in the $270-290 range.

As I said, this would be a strictly low volume, high precision press for small batch runs. I could easily see myself running off 20 rounds with 4 different types of powder to see which gives the best results.

Therefore, I would be very interested in everyone's thoughts on this. I'm also open to other presses that I didn't mention and may not even know about.

Edited April 17, 2010 by Eric Scher

[PHolsted]

Look at the forester press. Very nice press for what you are looking for.

[smokshwn]

Eric,

You can spend some time on Snipershide.net in the reloading section and get plenty of info. But consider that for $300 bills you are spending more but not getting much value. Instead I would look at setting up a couple of different toolheads for your 650. For instance you could set up a tool head to size trim and prime and then load on a second head. Processing brass on a progressive with a casefeeder is muy bueno as you don't handle the brass near as many times as you would on a turret or single stage. Most other brass prep is done by hand (necks etc). Nothing stops you from taking the dillon powder measure off and handthrowing powder or running an auto powder measure (RCBS, Hornady, or even a Prometheus). Then after you have done some load testing you still can take advantage of loading a little faster on a progressive.

There are plenty of guys making pretty damn good ammo on 550's and 650's (a guy with the initials of DT is one of them).

Edited April 17, 2010 by smokshwn

[Eric Scher]

PH -

Thanks, I'll take a look at that.

smok -

I do see your point, but I'd still really be interested in your opinion on a low volume press like one of the ones that I mentioned, or another that I may not have. The reason for that is that I don't want to be constantly taking things off my 650 and then putting them back on.

In terms of a more "open" and fully manual press, I'm really just looking for the basics...

For instance, should I select a press with a single station, or should I use some sort of turret press that lets me do more than one operation on the round without removing an individual case from the holder.

If I go with a multi-station turret press, how many stations do I really need? 3? 4? Get a T-7 and have two different calibers set up in the same press?

That Harrell's Tooling Turret Press is dead sexy. If I bought one, would I be buying based on looks or is it really as good as I keep hearing?

[ORCA]

The Forster is an great press, I love mine. I also have a Harrell 4 position turret press that Harrell sold me for a hundred bucks because it had a scatch on it when I was picking up a powder measure. Anything Harrell makes rocks and he is a great guy who stands behind anything he makes 100%. I use the Forster most of the time, but I use the Harrell's at the range for load development.

The best book I have ever seen for precision reloading is the Precision Shooting Reloading Guide. It covers different shooting disciplines, as what works for bench rest doesn't work for tactical rifle. Snipers hide is a good web site for tactical rifle, but thier empasis is on reliable ammo with acceptable long range accuracy, not groups. 6mmbr has the a lot of good information for extreme precision.

Brass prep? What brass prep with Lapua brass? Thats why you buy Lapua (and its tough as hell).

[h2osport]

Forster Coax press for long range precision relaoding would be my recommendation.

Randy

[Jaxshooter]

If you are doing low volume precision loading buy a 550 and use it. David Tubbs loads all of his match ammo on a 550 and he is as good as they get.

[GrumpyOne]

If you are doing low volume precision loading buy a 550 and use it. David Tubbs loads all of his match ammo on a 550 and he is as good as they get.

+1 (Don't say I didn't tell you to get a 550! )

[Eric Scher]

The 550 ship has sailed. I'm not getting one.

Even if I did, it still wouldn't fill the need I am trying to fill.

[Pat Miles]

Any of the Harrell brothers equipment is very good. I've used their powder measures which are just a joy to use and have one of their single station presses. Used both for benchrest shooting years ago. I don't know if the Tooling Turret press will fill your needs but you needn't be worried about the quality of Harrell equipment.

CYa,

Pat

[blkbrd]

I do love my 650 for pistol and semi long range 223-308.

I really don't think it matters, any good single stage press will work for the small volume high precision you are talking. As long as it takes standard dies.

The most accurate 300-1000 yard loads I have ever assembled are on a 30+ year old RCBS single arm press.

Dies and prep. & precision are the tricks, I love the Redding type S match dies with neck bushings, as well as the Redding bench rest seater.

Lapua brass is the way to go.

[smokshwn]

Eric,

I understand you asked for for info other than what you are being given, but if you are looking at a turret press then you are essentially just looking to utilize an expensive and very inefficient 550 (or 650 that you are planning on getting). Instead of turning the baseplate and having multiple rounds in process at once you are turning the toolhead and only working on one round at a time with absolutely no gain in precision. On the 550 setup you only remove two pins to change toolheads. On the other hand if you don't want to be moving things then why the turret?

Many of the things you are planning on doing do not involve the press anyway (neck turning, case weighin, bullet weighing, meplat trimming, primer pocket uniforming, flash hole deburring etc) so it means you are going to be touching the case several different times, this is where the actual time is spent, not in the 1-2 minutes it takes to change a tool head.

If you utilize the 650 with two separate tool heads you can minimize the number of times you touch the case. One touch to load in the casefeeder for trip through toolhead #1 size, deprime, trim. Then one touch to load in casefeeder for trip through toolhead #2 prime, powder (via individual charge if you choose), seat, and crimp if need be for an autoloader. Both those touches are in bulk as well not as an individual case.

Any single stage (including a rockchucker) with a good powder measure and brass prep tools will do what you want, but feel free to spend much much more.

good luck

Edited April 18, 2010 by smokshwn

[Nick Weidhaas]

I'm going to start loading .260 and I looked at buying the better grade reloading equipment from Sinclair (Forester press, Redding powder drop, etc). Priced it out and the total was $867. If I just used my 550, all I needed was a powder funnel ($13.95) for the .260 (already load .45acp, so nothing else was needed as shell plate and locator pins are the same). My Sinclair order dropped to $250 for the remaining equipment I needed (dies, powder trickle, other needed tools). My plan is to resize, prime, drop powder, pull case and weigh charge, trickle charge if needed, refill case, seat bullet and done. I'm using Redding match FL resizing and comp seat die. Once I need to start trimming, I'll do it after I resize and repeat above. Can't see why it won't work. Currently load .223 on the same press and my load gives me 1.5" groups at 300 with my JP CTR02 3gun rifle, so I don't think I'm losing anything loading .260 on a 550. Just my .02.

Edited April 23, 2010 by Nick Weidhaas

[Graham Smith]

If you pre-prep all of your brass, then stage one on a progressive press is empty. That means that you can run cases through without any resistance on the upstroke at all when you add powder, bullet, crimp. Makes for a very smooth operation.

[BillL223]

I do use one of the presses you're considering, the Redding T-7, and I'm happy with the results. You only use two dies for rifle reloading so I have .223, 7mm-08, and .308 continously set up in my press. I weigh charges for my precision work and recommend the cheapo Lee Perfect Powder measure for the initial charge and then trickle in the balance.

[fastshooter03]

I've no experience with a turret press. Not sure how that would help MY loading techniques out.

Forster CO-AX does all my sizing duties and low volume bullet seating. Easy die in/out and no need for different shellholders is nice.

I use a RCBS Chargemaster for low volume/high accuracy powder delivery.

The Dillon 650 pretty much does all my 223 loading after the brass is ready.

Even with small lots of different powders and charges I'll use the 650.

Plenty accurate with good seating dies and a die head that doesn't move.

I don't like sizing with the 650 although it can be done.

What would help me out is a High-case-holding-strength progressive press with case feed set up to size, trim, and chamfer.

Can't justify the price it would be to get such a beast right now though.

Nick

[kgunz11]

RCBS Rock Chucker and never look back.

[GrumpyOne]

Eric,

I understand you asked for for info other than what you are being given, but if you are looking at a turret press then you are essentially just looking to utilize an expensive and very inefficient 550 (or 650 that you are planning on getting). Instead of turning the baseplate and having multiple rounds in process at once you are turning the toolhead and only working on one round at a time with absolutely no gain in precision. On the 550 setup you only remove two pins to change toolheads. On the other hand if you don't want to be moving things then why the turret?

Many of the things you are planning on doing do not involve the press anyway (neck turning, case weighin, bullet weighing, meplat trimming, primer pocket uniforming, flash hole deburring etc) so it means you are going to be touching the case several different times, this is where the actual time is spent, not in the 1-2 minutes it takes to change a tool head.

If you utilize the 650 with two separate tool heads you can minimize the number of times you touch the case. One touch to load in the casefeeder for trip through toolhead #1 size, deprime, trim. Then one touch to load in casefeeder for trip through toolhead #2 prime, powder (via individual charge if you choose), seat, and crimp if need be for an autoloader. Both those touches are in bulk as well not as an individual case.

Any single stage (including a rockchucker) with a good powder measure and brass prep tools will do what you want, but feel free to spend much much more.

good luck

+1,000,000 If you are going to do precise loading, on a single caliber, why go with a progressive, no matter how progressive it is? Get a single stage.

[rwnielsen]

I think I understand what you mean.

I have a 650 with all the whistles and bells and it's terrific for high volume and/or fast loading of just about anything you can shoot. On the other hand, I have a Lee O-frame single stage that I do low volume magnum handgun loads as well as .308 rifle rounds. I use RCBS competition dies, a trickler and scale. I, as mentioned above, use an el-cheapo Lee powder measure to get close, trickle up and seat them one at a time. All case sizing, trimming, priming and de-burring is done by hand. I enjoy making accurate ammo. The .308 demands it and any upper end magnum load does as well. It's time consuming and well worth the effort. Get a good, solid, single stage press and some first rate dies and you'll be good to go. You obviously have a good idea of what you want.

Take care and be safe

Richard

[Graham Smith]

The classic setup for this is a single stage press. You do one thing at a time, you do it right, then you move onto the next thing. The main reason for doing it this way is that each and every step gets inspected closely as you go. For super precision reloading, that's the way to go and the Forster press is (often said to be) the best way to do it.

My only question is, using quality components, would you see that much difference in the end result (e.g. bullet on paper at 1000yds) with a single stage Forster as compared to a single stage Lee or a Lee turret or a 550 or your 650?

[Eric Scher]

If you are going to do precise loading, on a single caliber, why go with a progressive, no matter how progressive it is? Get a single stage.

That's precisely what I'm doing Grump. I'm simply doing it in ADDITION to buying a 650, as opposed to "Instead Of"; and with all due respect, I'm pretty sure I don't need either your approval or agreement before taking action.

Unless you were offering to take over financial responsibility for my reloading equipment and operations...?

====================================================================

Richard -

Thanks. You've hit on precisely what my thinking is.

Also, thank you to all the others who made press suggestions.

I still need to decide between the Sinclair, the Harrell's and the Forster, but there's no rush on that.

[Eric Scher]

The classic setup for this is a single stage press. You do one thing at a time, you do it right, then you move onto the next thing. The main reason for doing it this way is that each and every step gets inspected closely as you go. For super precision reloading, that's the way to go and the Forster press is (often said to be) the best way to do it.

My only question is, using quality components, would you see that much difference in the end result (e.g. bullet on paper at 1000yds) with a single stage Forster as compared to a single stage Lee or a Lee turret or a 550 or your 650?

Graham -

If I understand your question it relates to skill. In other words, while it may be true that "Precision" reloading will produce higher quality finished products than "Progressive" reloading; do I have sufficient skill to make the difference matter?

In complete honesty, I don't think I have a sufficient level of skill for it to matter at the moment.

Will I develop that level of skill? Time will tell.

However, filling MY desires for top quality ammo is only half the picture. I have several friends who have expressed a desire to purchase ammo of that quality if I can actually produce it. Not that doing so would really be a money making proposition as a PRACTICAL matter, but this is more about feeding my need to be the "Alpha Nerd", even though it's outside of the normal geek range of interests.

How big a nerd am I? Have you seen my avatar?

[GrumpyOne]

If you are going to do precise loading, on a single caliber, why go with a progressive, no matter how progressive it is? Get a single stage.

That's precisely what I'm doing Grump. I'm simply doing it in ADDITION to buying a 650, as opposed to "Instead Of"; and with all due respect, I'm pretty sure I don't need either your approval or agreement before taking action.

Unless you were offering to take over financial responsibility for my reloading equipment and operations...?

Edited April 28, 2010 by GrumpyOne

[GrumpyOne]

The classic setup for this is a single stage press. You do one thing at a time, you do it right, then you move onto the next thing. The main reason for doing it this way is that each and every step gets inspected closely as you go. For super precision reloading, that's the way to go and the Forster press is (often said to be) the best way to do it.

My only question is, using quality components, would you see that much difference in the end result (e.g. bullet on paper at 1000yds) with a single stage Forster as compared to a single stage Lee or a Lee turret or a 550 or your 650?

Graham -

If I understand your question it relates to skill. In other words, while it may be true that "Precision" reloading will produce higher quality finished products than "Progressive" reloading; do I have sufficient skill to make the difference matter?

In complete honesty, I don't think I have a sufficient level of skill for it to matter at the moment.

Will I develop that level of skill? Time will tell.

However, filling MY desires for top quality ammo is only half the picture. I have several friends who have expressed a desire to purchase ammo of that quality if I can actually produce it. Not that doing so would really be a money making proposition as a PRACTICAL matter, but this is more about feeding my need to be the "Alpha Nerd", even though it's outside of the normal geek range of interests.

How big a nerd am I? Have you seen my avatar?

Eric, in order to produce and sell the ammo you are producing, you must have a type 6 FFL. You can load and trade, but not sell. If money exchanges hands, then it is a Federal offense. I could be wrong about all of this, but this came from a very reliabel source in the government.

Edited April 28, 2010 by GrumpyOne

[Eric Scher]

Thank you for your input Grump.