ScoutII Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Could someone walk me through the whole 922r thing with the 712? Rob, It would be better to google it as the requirements for 922r can be confusing. And everyone has there own interpretation of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Thanks, just dropped them a note. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 (edited) Could someone walk me through the whole 922r thing with the 712? Rob, It would be better to google it as the requirements for 922r can be confusing. And everyone has there own interpretation of it. Which is why a factory supplied kit would be so welcome. Short version... Title 18 Chapter 44 Section 922r of the United States Code, defined further by Title 27 Part 478.39 of the Code of Federal Regulation (CFR), basically restricts "hi-capacity" semiautomatic rifles and shotguns to no more 10 imported parts from a list of 20 parts. So, if you have a shotgun with 16 parts, 6 of them have to be US Made. Some people beleive that you need 4 US Parts to put a Benelli into compliance, some 5. Some say adding a tube increases the total number of parts, however the ATF says otherwise. Each platform needs to be evaluated and it is tricky and confusing. Until fairly recently, it was of little concern because it was not enforced, but recently, people have been stung. Just one reason I will only shoot US made shotguns. There are some Benelli shooters that add US made parts to ensure they are in compliance, others, not so much. That is one reason some folks went with Salients, and now look to TTI Benellis. Edited February 21, 2013 by MarkCO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoutII Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Could someone walk me through the whole 922r thing with the 712? Rob, It would be better to google it as the requirements for 922r can be confusing. And everyone has there own interpretation of it. Which is why a factory supplied kit would be so welcome. I agree it would take all the guess work out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robkroupa Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Thanks, just dropped them a note. Same here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDF5186 Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Nordic components rock. I got my extension,follower,-and clamp faster then the gun. High five to Nordic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksmirk Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 Well I heard this evening that Nordic has the plans to make some more bolt handles as soon as thier machines open up which might be awhile as we know they are busy. A factory shotgun from CZ let's just say probably a fat chance in hell of that happening! myself along with some other people who's names actually mean something tried rather hard to get them to come around but no chance, it would be real simple BUT they have other ideas which is too bad as they have a great little shotgun that would be real simple to make an out of the box rig! not sure how long it will take Nordic to get machine time for the bolt handles but it was voiced that they need to make more than last time ;-) Later, Kirk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDF5186 Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 High five Kirk!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
two shoes Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 So I, like others, sent an email to CZ about 922r compliance. The reply I got was (paraphrasing) CZ-USA is working with ATF on an official parts count. When that is done they will look at offering either a kit or possibly a product that has it already (will hold breath when it is in print form CZ-USA). They are currently waiting on ATF before doing anything else. So before the "official" list is out, we can only guess at what the ATF parts count contains and the items required to become compliant. In the mean time, I will pick up one of these little beauties and just shoot it for trap/skeet/sporting clays... So here is to fingers crossed, this gets done sooner than later. I have fondled a 712 and love the forward stock transition (i.e. smooth). Hope to have one by the middle of next month... I spent my allowance this month on supplies... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastmtnbiker33w Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 I got the same email. Sounds like the BATF has got it all together and is totally on the ball. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
two shoes Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 I got the same email. Sounds like the BATF has got it all together and is totally on the ball. lol I was thinking something much to that effect... lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksmirk Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 Only time there will be a problem with 922R now since it has been defunded is if a company ask them if it's ok. Without funding how will they go after anyone? I know a sad story about 2 other shotgun manufactures that ask "can I" and they got held up :-( BUT in this day and age ya never know! Later, Kirk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 Yeah, but "Kirk said it was okay to break the law on Enos" won't fly in most courtrooms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksmirk Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 Has there ever been a 922R brought up in a courtroom? I'm asking cause I really don't know AND I'm not saying break the law by any means. Later, Kirk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDF5186 Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Adding the text of the letters so they will show up in Google searches: Original query: March 18, 2009 Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives Firearms Technology Division 99 New York Avenue, NE Washington, D.C. 20226 Dear Sirs, I am writing for clarification on Title 18 § 922®, which prohibit s any person “to assemble from imported parts” some semiautomatic rifles and shotguns under certain circumstances. The meaning of “from imported parts” is defined in 27 C.F.R. Section 478.39 as being not more than ten parts of foreign origin from a list of twenty possible parts. However, there is no requirement that the origin of any parts, whether of foreign or domestic make, be marked on these parts in any way, with the exception of the receiver. Therefore almost all firearm parts other than the receiver are not marked with regard to national origin. When considering the purchase of a second-hand semiautomatic rifle or shotgun, it is often impossible for the buyer, or any other party, to determine with any certainty the origin of the parts of the weapon. By extension, it is often equally impossible for the potential buyer to determine whether or not the rifle or shotgun is in compliance with § 922®, based on the standards set forth in 27 C.F.R. Section 478.39. My questions in regard to this difficulty are as follows: Firstly, what is the BATFE’s definition of “assembly” as it applies to § 922®? Secondly, does the BATFE consider routine maintenance such as the removal and replacement of parts for cleaning, or the removal and insertion of magazines to constitute “assembly”? Thirdly, would a person incur criminal liability by the purchase and possession of a second-hand firearm which was determined not to be in compliance with § 922®, even though the assembly of said firearm was performed by someone other than the buyer, and the buyer had no way to verify the legality of that assembly? Fourthly, if a person were to be criminally charged with a violation of § 922®, on whom would the burden of proof lie, and what standard of proof would be required to establish guilt or innocence? Finally, what is the BATFE’s procedure for determining whether a given firearm is in compliance with § 922®, given that the absence of a mark indicating the origin of a part is insufficient to draw any firm conclusion about the part’s origin, foreign or domestic? Thank you for your assistance in this matter. Sincerely yours, XXXX XXXXXX ATF reply: Dear MX. XXXXX: This is in response to your recent correspondence to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives(ATF), Firearms Technology Branch (FTB) asking several questions with respect to 18 U.S.C. 922® and its implementing regulation, 2TC FR 478.39. (Please note that your letter was forwarded to FTB's new location in Martinsburg, West Virginia.) Your questions are listed below in italics, each followed by our answers, which are in bullets. 1. What is ATF's definition of "assembly" as it applies to 922®? The meaning of "assemble" or "assembly''as it applies to 922® shall be the same as the word is generally known and used. 2. Does ATF consider routine maintenance, such as the removal and replacement of parts for cleaning, or the removal and insertion of magazines to constitute "assembly"? The removal and re-installing of parts for cleaning and routine maintenance would not constitute assembly for the purpose of $ 922®, as long as none of the original parts are substituted with replacement or additional parts. 3. Would a person incur criminal liability by the purchase and possession of a second-hand firearm which was determined not to be in compliance with 922®, even though the assembly of saidfirearm was performed bl,someone other than the buyer, and the buyer had no way to verify the legality of that assembly? 18 U.S.C. 5 922®a ppliest o the act of assembly per se, not mere possession of the assembled firearm. 4. If a person were to be criminally charged with a violation of $ 922®, on whom would the burden of proof lie, and what standard of proof would be required to establish guilt or innocence? All persons are considered innocent until proven guilty; thereforet, the "burden of proof" in any criminal case lies with the Government. The burden of proof to establish "guilt" has long been codified by legal precedent in U.S. Courts. We recommend you seek the guidance of legal counsel for a detailed explanation of this standard. 5. What is ATF's procedure for determining whether a given firearm is in compliance with 922®, given that the absence of a mark indicating the origin of a part is insufficient to draw any firm conclusion about the part's origin, foreign or domestic? Every method possible is utilized in identifying the origin of manufacture of a firearm part during an investigation involving a suspected violation of 922®. Each such review must be taken on a case-by-case basis and may necessitate evaluation of such things as: design characteristics, markings (or lack thereof), and associate documents and/or statements. We thank you for your inquiry and turst you find our answers responsive. Sincerely yours, John R. Spencer Chief, Firearms Technology Branch ATF's reply is a little mangled, since I OCR'd it rather than retyped, but the key words are there. Still looking for input on the burden of proof issue... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDF5186 Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Found this. (Above). But I think it helps clarify for those who are a little unsure of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDF5186 Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Plus I'm bumping the thread. Lol. Cz USA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDF5186 Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 How hard is it to install a carrier bar on this thing.....not a big fan of the stock release button. Kind of small and stiff. I am spoiled by my work shotgun i guess. I know they all require drilling and tapping of the stock button. How hard is this? Or more specifically what are the chances of me f ing this up,lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kampr Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 How hard is it to install a carrier bar on this thing.....not a big fan of the stock release button. Kind of small and stiff. I am spoiled by my work shotgun i guess. I know they all require drilling and tapping of the stock button. How hard is this? Or more specifically what are the chances of me f ing this up,lol. This is from post #44 "Before mounting, pay attention to the original bolt releases' position with the bolt closed and open. You want to drill & tap at a slight angle so the forward part of the Arredondo releases the bolt and the rear will activate the shell stop. Makes unloading the tube, a breeze. If I get a chance this weekend, I’ll post some pic’s." Looks like I never got around to posting the pics. Obviously, you want to drill & tap from the under side,..the tap threaded though the outside is to give you an idea of the angle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDF5186 Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Cool thanks. I may attempt this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDF5186 Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 I decided on the speed button from nordic since i have always had great luck with there products. I imagine the install will be the same, slight angle. ill post pics as soon as i get this thing together. Thanks a lot for all the feedback! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDF5186 Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Is anyone else using the NC speed bolt button on their 712 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
805ebr Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 I am using the NC speed button. For my install I sanded the button flat to get rid of the factory "dome" shape. Then like others I drilled and tapped from the backside of the button. I'll grab a cell pic of the finished install if you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
805ebr Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 (edited) A couple of quick cell phone pics. Not as nice as kampr's but I think you get the idea. Let me know if you have questions. Edited March 6, 2013 by 805ebr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
805ebr Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 And the other ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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