1/16" tolerance in SS box?

[bbbean]

Does the 1/16" tolerance mean the real limit is 6 1/16" or does that mean that I should fit 5 15/16" in case the box is small?

With my CMC extended basepads, my gun is right on the line at 6", but safe at 6 1/16". If I depress the adjustable sight, I gain enough play to see daylight between the bottom of the mag and the 6" line. Does play in a rear sight count towards fitting the box?

[steel1212]

Does the 1/16" tolerance mean the real limit is 6 1/16" or does that mean that I should fit 5 15/16" in case the box is small?

With my CMC extended basepads, my gun is right on the line at 6", but safe at 6 1/16". If I depress the adjustable sight, I gain enough play to see daylight between the bottom of the mag and the 6" line. Does play in a rear sight count towards fitting the box?

My interpretation of the box is, it either fits or it does not. We had "THE" box at the Battle in the Bluegrass match and there is no wiggle room to that tank. I think, and I could be wrong on this, that Gary or Ken told me that your gun has to fit in the box in the condition that it is in. They said that means no squishing the sights to make it fit or squishing the mag up to make it fit. Now my gun fits a IDPA box with a little wiggle room but it had a lot of room top to bottom in the "Official USPSA" box. My gun is flat topped but I think all my round topped guns would have fit just as well.

[bbbean]

My interpretation of the box is, it either fits or it does not.

That sounds reasonable, but the USPSA manual includes the line about +1/16" tolerance. I'm just trying to understand how that applies in practice.

[steel1212]

My interpretation of the box is, it either fits or it does not.

That sounds reasonable, but the USPSA manual includes the line about +1/16" tolerance. I'm just trying to understand how that applies in practice.

Don't know but I don't know how there is a tolerance. Its just like the mag gauge, it either fits or it does not. They might have the 1/16" built into the box and that is why my gun fit with ease as I use a IDPA box to test fit. Same with the Mag gauge, the rule is 140mm but the gauge is a touch longer than that to allow for some forgiveness and we take advantage of that with pads like the dawson SNLs.....its what we do

With that said I don't think we had anybody that didn't fit the box at our match and we had 40 something SSers.

[open17]

"Yes, handgun with empty magazine

inserted must fit wholly within a box

with internal dimensions of 8 15/16” x

6” x 1 5/8” (tolerance +1/16”, -0”)"

Play it safe---just get set up so it will fit at 8 15/16" x 6" x 1 5/8". The box

is allowed to be up to 1/16" larger, but can't be smaller. However it CAN be right on size,

and if your gun won't fit smaller than 6" you're going to be SOL.

Not at all sure about not being able to depress rear sights. I thought

I saw somewhere that it was allowed??

Maybe I'm thinking of IPSC rules?

"Special conditions:

16. A handgun in its ready condition (See Section 8.1), but unloaded and with

an empty magazine inserted or empty cylinder closed, must fit wholly

within the confines of a box which has internal dimensions of 225mm x

150mm x 45mm (tolerance of +1 mm, -0 mm). Note that all magazines

must comply; failing which Rule 6.2.5.1 will apply. When a handgun is

inserted into the box, rear adjustable sights may be slightly depressed, but

all other features of the handgun, (e.g. collapsible and/or folding sights,

slide rackers, thumb rests, external hammers, grips etc), must be fully

extended or deployed. Additionally, telescoping magazines and/or

magazines with spring-loaded bases or base pads are expressly prohibited."

[steel1212]

Like I said I could be wrong. I don't think it would be a good idea for a match to use a box other than what is official and I think EGW is making the official boxes to be used. If that is the case there won't be one that is 6 and one that is 6 and 1/16.

As far as the rear sight, I just thought that was what Ken told me when they where boxing my gun but I could be wrong.

[bofe954]

I compress the sights when I put mine in. That box finish is pretty rough, I wouldn't really want my sights scraping along it. I really can't remember if the chrono guy put it in the box at SS nats last year, or if I did it while they watched.

Would it be cheating to count clicks and screw it down in the safe area prior to putting it in?

[G-ManBart]

Would it be cheating to count clicks and screw it down in the safe area prior to putting it in?

I'm not sure it would be considered cheating...maybe gaming a little, but there isn't a rule that says you can't adjust your sights during a match right?

[spanky]

The +/- 1/16 is for the specs for building the box iirc.

Meaning it can be between X 5/16 and X+1 1/16

[spanky]

Iow you gun should fit in a box that is X 15/16 and if it doesn't, oh well

[steel1212]

I compress the sights when I put mine in. That box finish is pretty rough, I wouldn't really want my sights scraping along it. I really can't remember if the chrono guy put it in the box at SS nats last year, or if I did it while they watched.

Would it be cheating to count clicks and screw it down in the safe area prior to putting it in?

Was it the metal USPSA box used last year?

[bbbean]

I compress the sights when I put mine in. That box finish is pretty rough, I wouldn't really want my sights scraping along it. I really can't remember if the chrono guy put it in the box at SS nats last year, or if I did it while they watched.

Would it be cheating to count clicks and screw it down in the safe area prior to putting it in?

Was it the metal USPSA box used last year?

Yes - At the SS nats, it was a metal box, and the RO placed the gun in the box.

[Rob Boudrie]

"Yes, handgun with empty magazine inserted must fit wholly within a box with internal dimensions of 8 15/16” x 6” x 1 5/8” (tolerance +1/16”, -0”)"

While only John Amidon can issue a formal interpretation, I would take this to mean that any box that measured within the tolerance range could be used as the definitive measure at a match. The fact that a box was outside of the tolerance range would give grounds for a challenge. The fact that a box was within the tolerance band, but not at the maximum, would not allow a competitor to succeed in a challenge to a ruling that failure to fit in the box meant the gun did not meet equipment requirements.

Everything has a tolerance. By specifying the tolerance in this manner, the competitor who knows his gun will fit in a box at the lower edge of the tolerance window can be assured it will fit any rules compliant box used at a match.

[Gary Stevens]

It is my understanding, and the practice I have used in the past, is that the gun must fit in the box, period end of story. If you want to click your sights down before putting the gun in the box, that is fine, just remember your click count

That being said though, if your gun is that close, perhaps you should look at the base pads or make some other adjustment just in case.

Gary

[steel1212]

It is my understanding, and the practice I have used in the past, is that the gun must fit in the box, period end of story. If you want to click your sights down before putting the gun in the box, that is fine, just remember your click count

That being said though, if your gun is that close, perhaps you should look at the base pads or make some other adjustment just in case.

Gary

GUess I was listening to range gossip on the sights lol.

[BMartens]

It is my understanding, and the practice I have used in the past, is that the gun must fit in the box, period end of story. If you want to click your sights down before putting the gun in the box, that is fine, just remember your click count

That being said though, if your gun is that close, perhaps you should look at the base pads or make some other adjustment just in case.

Gary

I have the same situation except my gun has a Novak non-adjustable rear sight and it's not compressing any time soon but, on the other end of the handle I have almost 16th of an inch slack with the seated magazine. If you press up to take up the spring tension of the magazine I think it will be just fine. Is taking up the slack by depressing the magazine to put it in the box acceptable?

[ima45dv8]

By compressing the rear sight slightly, mine fits the box. I haven't read anything in the rulebook that defines how it gets into the box...only that it must fit. I consider mine a 'freestyle' insertion.

Until I see something printed in a rulebook or in the Rulings section of USPSA.org detailing how it's inserted into the box I can't believe it isn't compliant. Likewise I won't penalize someone else for doing the same thing if serving as RM at a match where it happens.