Causes of a DNF on a stage?

[Pro2AInPA]

The weather finally let me shoot my first USPSA match today. Things went fairly well. However, I just looked at the scores and I was given a DNF on one of the stages. I shot every stage and NOTHING happened that should have caused a DNF. What are some possible causes of a DNF that I may not know about? Other than no one wrote my scores down which would REALLY piss me off . . . .

[yoshidaex]

missing score sheet, time or hits. Or maybe the scorekeeper just misplaced your scoresheet. Seen that happen a few times....

Edited March 22, 2010 by yoshidaex

[Pat Miles]

How was the match scored? Paper or Palm. If paper and you got a carbon copy I would talk to whoever does the scoring and match results. My club uses StageScore and the scores are written on a separate sheet in the event of a problem.

You might have to eat this one but I sure would talk to some folks. Ask to see the score sheet that shows your DNF and talk with the RO who signed off on it.

Take a deep breath...stuff happens.

CYa,

Pat

[Flexmoney]

The weather finally let me shoot my first USPSA match today. Things went fairly well. However, I just looked at the scores and I was given a DNF on one of the stages. I shot every stage and NOTHING happened that should have caused a DNF. What are some possible causes of a DNF that I may not know about? Other than no one wrote my scores down which would REALLY piss me off . . . .

Ultimately, it is the shooter's responsibility to ensure our score sheets accurately reflect our run on the cof.

Refer to this thread : http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=13312&st=0

Also see section 9.7 & 9.8 of the rule book.

[G-ManBart]

Did you stay to review the scores, or do they not post them after tear down at that club? R,

[Nik Habicht]

missing score sheet, time or hits. Or maybe the scorekeeper just misplaced your scoresheet. Seen that happen a few times....

Either a missing score sheet or a missing time are the correct answers. Missing hits are not grounds for a DNF --- those hits recorded are deemed conclusive; any missing hits are entered as non-penalty mikes, since we don't know if they were misses either....

If this was Topton, my money's on someone forgetting to write down a time.....

Important to look at scoresheets and initial them on every stage. Doing scores for a club match for a while and at virtually every match there was either a no time error or an incorrect number of hits error. If the scorekeeper doesn't record the number of steel hit (leaves the line blank) the scorekeeper can't enter them after the match is over and torn down....

[mactiger]

missing score sheet, time or hits. Or maybe the scorekeeper just misplaced your scoresheet. Seen that happen a few times....

Either a missing score sheet or a missing time are the correct answers. Missing hits are not grounds for a DNF --- those hits recorded are deemed conclusive; any missing hits are entered as non-penalty mikes, since we don't know if they were misses either....

If this was Topton, my money's on someone forgetting to write down a time.....

Important to look at scoresheets and initial them on every stage. Doing scores for a club match for a while and at virtually every match there was either a no time error or an incorrect number of hits error. If the scorekeeper doesn't record the number of steel hit (leaves the line blank) the scorekeeper can't enter them after the match is over and torn down....

The following rules apply, but unless there was no score sheet at all, you should have received a 0 for the stage, not a DNF. We don't do DNF any more, unless there is no information available at all, in which case the stats person can enter "DNF", but it stands for "Did Not Fire".

9.7.5 If a score sheet is found to have insufficient or excess entries, or if the

time has not been recorded on the score sheet, the competitor will be

required to reshoot the course of fire.

40 • USPSA Handgun Rules, January 2008 Edition

9.7.6 In the event that a reshoot is not possible or permissible for any reason,

the following actions will prevail:

9.7.6.1 If the time is missing, the competitor will receive a zero score

for the course of fire.

9.7.6.2 If insufficient hits or misses have been recorded on the score

sheet, the hits and misses which have been recorded will be

deemed complete and conclusive.

9.7.6.3 If excessive hits or misses have been recorded on the score

sheet, the highest value scoring hits recorded will be used.

9.7.6.4 Procedural penalties recorded on the score sheet will be deemed

complete and conclusive, except where Rule 8.6.2 applies.

9.7.6.5 If the identity of the competitor is missing from a score sheet, it

must be referred to the Range Master, who must take whatever

action he deems necessary to rectify the situation.

9.7.7 In the event that an original score sheet is lost or otherwise unavailable,

the competitor’s duplicate copy, or any other written or electronic

record acceptable to the Range Master, will be used. If the competitor’s

copy, or any other written or electronic record, is unavailable, or is

deemed by the Range Master to be insufficiently legible the competitor

will be required to reshoot the course of fire. If the Range Master

deems that a reshoot is not possible for any reason, the competitor will

incur a zero time and score for the affected course of fire.

HTH,

Troy

[Dan Hefta]

The weather finally let me shoot my first USPSA match today. Things went fairly well. However, I just looked at the scores and I was given a DNF on one of the stages. I shot every stage and NOTHING happened that should have caused a DNF. What are some possible causes of a DNF that I may not know about? Other than no one wrote my scores down which would REALLY piss me off . . . .

This happened to me once ("ONCE" is the key word), I check and double check my score sheet now. Just learn from it and move on.

[wgnoyes]

The following rules apply, but unless there was no score sheet at all, you should have received a 0 for the stage, not a DNF. We don't do DNF any more, unless there is no information available at all, in which case the stats person can enter "DNF", but it stands for "Did Not Fire".

That's not possible to do in the case of a missing time. There is no "zero the stage" button in ezwinscore, and you can't complete entry of a scoresheet with a zero time. The best the stats officer can do for you with a zero time is to go through the motions of keying in the hits and misses and whatnot, and then select "yes" for DNF. They won't show on the listing (which makes it a pointless exercise), but the effect is the same: you're at the bottom of the list with all those who really did zero the stage.

[Nik Habicht]

The following rules apply, but unless there was no score sheet at all, you should have received a 0 for the stage, not a DNF. We don't do DNF any more, unless there is no information available at all, in which case the stats person can enter "DNF", but it stands for "Did Not Fire".

That's not possible to do in the case of a missing time. There is no "zero the stage" button in ezwinscore, and you can't complete entry of a scoresheet with a zero time. The best the stats officer can do for you with a zero time is to go through the motions of keying in the hits and misses and whatnot, and then select "yes" for DNF. They won't show on the listing (which makes it a pointless exercise), but the effect is the same: you're at the bottom of the list with all those who really did zero the stage.

+1.....

The only other alternative is to fudge it in a different way to ensure a stage zero --- but that makes scorekeeping/match administration look unethical.....

[BSeevers]

Before you get too pissed off think about your reaction when you are the guy who forgets to write down someone's time.

I TRY to not to forget anything either but have had it done to me and probably have done it.

Some people get into the habit of circleing at the end of the run, Time, Total Point/hits and Penalties and its a great cross check.

Its shooters responsibility to check scores.

[mactiger]

The following rules apply, but unless there was no score sheet at all, you should have received a 0 for the stage, not a DNF. We don't do DNF any more, unless there is no information available at all, in which case the stats person can enter "DNF", but it stands for "Did Not Fire".

That's not possible to do in the case of a missing time. There is no "zero the stage" button in ezwinscore, and you can't complete entry of a scoresheet with a zero time. The best the stats officer can do for you with a zero time is to go through the motions of keying in the hits and misses and whatnot, and then select "yes" for DNF. They won't show on the listing (which makes it a pointless exercise), but the effect is the same: you're at the bottom of the list with all those who really did zero the stage.

+1.....

The only other alternative is to fudge it in a different way to ensure a stage zero --- but that makes scorekeeping/match administration look unethical.....

OK, I'll buy that, since I don't do stats much and you guys do. I have handled a few scoresheets with errors on them, though. My impression was that you'd not see "DNF" on a sheet unless it was a case of no scoresheet or evidence of having fired the stage. I stand corrected if that's not the case. I may have misunderstood the OP's question--I read it that he got a "DNF" not a zero.

Troy

[Nik Habicht]

OK, I'll buy that, since I don't do stats much and you guys do. I have handled a few scoresheets with errors on them, though. My impression was that you'd not see "DNF" on a sheet unless it was a case of no scoresheet or evidence of having fired the stage. I stand corrected if that's not the case. I may have misunderstood the OP's question--I read it that he got a "DNF" not a zero.

Troy

He probably did --- if he went to a local match where scores are entered into EZW after the match is over and everyone's gone home. If you're doing stats, and lack a time, DNF is your only option --- and I think it displays on the results as DNF, rather than zero.....

Same basic effect on match score....

[Pro2AInPA]

Turns out the person doing the scoring in our squad didn't write down my time, resulting in a DNF.

The worst part is that this was a really tough stage (3 targets and 3 no shoots at 50 yards) and most shooters hit the no shoots a lot, resulting in more penalty points than target points, resulting in a zero. I, on the other hand, didn't hit the no shoots at all and did pretty well on the stage.

Oh well, finished 4th out of 9 in limited even with the DNF on the stage. And the guy that won is a M class shooter. Not bad overall for the first time shooting USPSA.

[Flexmoney]

Turns out the person doing the scoring in our squad didn't write down my time, resulting in a DNF.

That happens. Mistakes happen. And, it's the reason that we shooters are responsible for seeing that our score sheets are correct.

Good shooting. Keep after it and you will have many great scores to remember.

[Jman]

Ah crap. Sorry to hear it. Full disclosure time. I drove off with 2 stage score sheets in the last 12 months! One cost me a division win! Polle our stats lady understands my advancing age and feeble mindedness and has asked for my cell number in case I forget it again. And too, to make sure I get home OK. She's very nice.

Jim

[Pro2AInPA]

Turns out the person doing the scoring in our squad didn't write down my time, resulting in a DNF.

That happens. Mistakes happen. And, it's the reason that we shooters are responsible for seeing that our score sheets are correct.

Good shooting. Keep after it and you will have many great scores to remember.

Do you recommend bugging the scorekeeper as soon as they're done scoring me before the next shooter, or wait til after everyone shoots the stage or wait til the end of the match before the sheets are handed in?

[Jman]

Check your sheet as soon as it's given to you. If you notify your RO that time or targets scores are missing you'll get a reshoot if they're not retrievable.

Jim

[Nik Habicht]

Turns out the person doing the scoring in our squad didn't write down my time, resulting in a DNF.

That happens. Mistakes happen. And, it's the reason that we shooters are responsible for seeing that our score sheets are correct.

Good shooting. Keep after it and you will have many great scores to remember.

Do you recommend bugging the scorekeeper as soon as they're done scoring me before the next shooter, or wait til after everyone shoots the stage or wait til the end of the match before the sheets are handed in?

You walk with the RO who's scoring targets. Once that's done -- assuming that there were no issues -- walk over to the scorekeeper, who should be close by. Give him whatever time he needs to finish up -- ideally he'll total the hits -- then ask to review and initial the scoresheet. (Most will ask if they see you standing there; many won't bother to chase you down if you're not there.)

If there's a discrepancy -- no time, the hits don't add up to the stage total, not enough hits on a line -- then there's an opportunity to fix it, one way or another.....

[GISMap]

You guys don't sign your scoresheets at the end of a COF? Time and score are something you should always verify, and yes, you do get a reshoot if any score or time is irretrievable.

[Schutzenmeister]

You guys don't sign your scoresheets at the end of a COF? Time and score are something you should always verify, and yes, you do get a reshoot if any score or time is irretrievable.

Unless, of course, you don't discover it until the next day when everyone has torn down, gone home, and you get the results. It's a little late then!

[Pro2AInPA]

You guys don't sign your scoresheets at the end of a COF? Time and score are something you should always verify, and yes, you do get a reshoot if any score or time is irretrievable.

No one else in the squad was, so I didn't think to either. I will be from now on.