super grand master

[lynn jones]

i have read in other forums for the developement of a new division called super grand master.  what are your thoughts on a super grand master would be?

i don't believe we need another division.  we (me and samual adams) think we should make grand masters shoot at a higher power factor, such as the old 175 pf.  i don't want to penalize the gm, however, their skill level distorts us lowly mortal shooters.

just a thought.

lynn (maybe this should be on the flame friday forum?) jones

(Edited by lynn jones at 7:40 pm on Dec. 12, 2002)

[Jake Di Vita]

There was a discussion awhile ago about certain people being moved up to the "Professional" divison which I'm sure the Linkmaster will post for us soon:). Personally I'm fine with how it is. Why fix what ain't broken?

[Vince Pinto]

Lynn,

I think you better talk to my friends Jack Daniels and Johhny Walker, because Samuel Adams is leading you astray.

Super GM would be a classifier grade, not a new division, dude!

The trouble is that even if we forced guys like TGO to shoot a potato gun, weak hand only, while wearing flippers, a snorkel and fishnet stockings, he'd still whup our honky white asses.

[Julien Boit]

Vince, you forgot the rock attached to his foot !

DVC

Julien

[Jon Merricks]

What would be next Super Dee Duper GM.   As far as the PF goes that would be crazy too.  The normal shooters benefit from the time, effort and money the GM's spend on R&D.   I guess some people have nothing better to do than to think up crazy ways to change the sport instead of figuring out ways to bring new shooters in.

"we (me and samual adams) think we should make grand masters shoot at a higher power factor, such as the old 175 pf.  i don't want to penalize the gm, however, their skill level distorts us lowly mortal shooters."

Why not just score them as minor no matter what PF they are?  This is nonsense.  You are talking about picking on somebody because they are a better shooter than you are.  This sounds like Government at it’s best.  No wonder people get tired of the BS and quit.

[lynn jones]

hey vince,

i was going to invite mr. jack daniels and mr. johnnie walker, however they were tied up with the ipsc rules committee.

hey, i really do know the difference between a "division" and a "class"  that was sam's contribution.  

lynn (i have a meeting with sam tonight) jones

[ErikW]

We all know who the Super Duper Grand Masters are and they don't need a database or cards to identify them.

[Duane Thomas]

"we (me and samual adams) think we should make grand masters shoot at a higher power factor, such as the old 175 pf.  i don't want to penalize the gm, however, their skill level distorts us lowly mortal shooters."

I agree totally with Jon. Make GMs operate under a different set of rules? Please. There are people who are better at doing certain things than others. That's the nature of reality. You don't penalize them for that, you admire them, and strive to one day join their ranks.

Besides, for all that "TGO isn't really human," "Todd can do things a mere mortal can't," etc., etc. stuff, the truth is that they're mere mortals like the rest of us. They've just worked a hell of a lot harder at improving their skill levels. If you worked at hard as RL/TJ/JB, you could do the same things they do - granted decent hand/eye coordination and no physical defects to start with, of course.

[EricW]

Golly gee, I've got an idea.  Let's implement Democracy at its most demonic level.  We'll just put out an annual ballot of which GM's should be voted out of USPSA/IPSC because they're too good and their scores embarass us and hurt our puddin' little feelings.  

Or, we could just stop acting like crybaby a**holes and get over it.  Anybody that's had their head out of their ass for the past couple of decades knows that Socialism is a failed experiment.   What's broken is a few people's attitudes.  It is not Todd's, Robbie's, or anyone else's fault that you're losing.

Now, open up a fresh Sam Adams and get some perspective.   And send one my way while you're at it...  

[Duane Thomas]

C'mon, Eric, no more holding back....tell us how you REALLY feel.

[Wakal]

Eric hurt my puddin' little feelings...

Still trying to visualize Nyle's boy shooting a potato gun, weak hand only, while wearing flippers, a snorkel and fishnet stockings...with a rock tied to his flipper...he is sure going to walk funny up to the front to get his match winner trophy  :b

Alex

[Vince Pinto]

Wait until you see the new category we're going to introduce next year, which will finally give me a chance to become an IPSC World Champion.

It's called "Fat Bastard"

[Ron Ankeny]

Don't be so sure about that Vince my boy...you will have to get by me first.

[j1b]

I think you guys are going about it all wrong.

See . . . if we make them change equipment or standards and they still beat us - we're screwed.

I say once they make GM we kick em' out. We could really solve the world's problems that way

1) No more "super" intimidation with new shooters - just us regular guys

2) Someone else could win

3) No more equipment race (since skill was obviously the difference before now we can stop screwing around with our guns)

Hell . . . I think I'll have a beer!

I don't think Lynn's thought process is that unusual. I do think it probably penalizes a group of individuals that don't deserve it. We all know they practice hard, and that is what makes them great. We could all be there - but we all don't make it a priority. If we did - we would be the ones someone else was figuring out how to seperate out.

JB

[omnia1911]

Could super grandmaster be another term for "professional shooter"?

[j1b]

If so then the class were to be called "Professional Shooter" then it would simply dissappear after Rob, Todd, Jerry and Doug are gone.

Its a dying breed if you ask me.

JB

[Flexmoney]

JB,

Are you meaning they are the only guys making a living off sponsorship?

[IPSC CHIK1]

last i heard, Jerry was  very much NOT sponsored

[j1b]

Of course my statement is a slight exageration. I realize that there are more shooters out there making a buck at this gig than the 4 mentioned. And I think most everyone knows Jerry is sponsored by Jerry - but he makes a good living w/ the classes and stuff.

I think that "professional" shooters will be around for a while. People scrapping together $20,000 or $30,000 a year and making it work. It'll get tougher and tougher as time goes by and the people making big money will probably dissapear all together.

The professional shooter of the future (in my opinion) will work his/her butt off for very little return. And very little financial security. They will exist, but not like they do today. It truly doesn't make sense for companies to invest in shooters because the return has been nominal to the investment.

The prime example is Springfield. Although I believe Rob has payed for himself many times over, the shooters in this sport really have not supported Springfield to the degree that Springfield has supported it. I know that statement is going to get some posts that argue why people don't buy Springfield, and truly I understand the arguments - but I think there is still validity in the point. I can remember many nationals when there were 3 Springfield guns in the field, Rob, Myself, Kippi and/or Doug. Maybe a few others - but basically it was the team - and a few others. My point being that Springfield invested in all of us, and got very little return for that (in the sport) Now maybe we weren't good reps - Of the lot only Rob and Kippi actually won national titles. I would be amazed if anyone knew the highest spot I ever got at the nationals - if they did it would probably be because they knew me personally not because they knew Jack Barnes of Team Springfield using a Springfield gun. I think during the time we won our fair shareof matches (area, state and the such) - but that somehow never seemed to pull shooters into the Springfield line of product.

So . . . I know I rant to much - and please do not read this e-mail as a hostile e-mail (as written text can be misconstrued) It truly is not - I am so very grateful for the time I had in "the show" short as it was - and I still maintain a great relationship with all past sponsors. When my contracts came up - I understood precisely why we did not re-sign. It was not personal, and therefor I could not take it personally. It was (to me) a very real indication of where the professional shooter was going to fit into this sport.

Sorry . . . I'll shut up now.

JB

[Jake Di Vita]

I agree with Jack. The only time I can foresee there actually being a lot of "Professional" shooters with big sponsership is with a huge increase in popularity. Look at all the professional sports, there is a big market for sponsership because there is a big market for spectators and players. You can't have one without the other.

[omnia1911]

I hear that bass fishing tournaments can pay well. Do you think that they will let me use a .45? :-)

(Edited by omnia1911 at 9:43 am on Dec. 15, 2002)

[Jake Di Vita]

You can use your .45 if I can use a stick of dynamite.

[Shooter Grrl]

Hmmm - interesting... I considered the Super GM as a way to reward those that stand out above the rest of the pack.  And as a way to reward REAL skills - rather than being able to practice classifiers to say that you're a GM now

Can't wait to see what the criteria is for inclusion in this class!

[Rich Bagoly]

You can embroider Super Grand Master on your PJ's anytime you want to.

We know who the Top Dogs are.  Calling them by a new name won't change anything.  

[Jake Di Vita]

Super Grand Master sounds like something out of a cartoon. If that class was actually introduced the downfall of IPSC would be right behind it. As everyone else has been saying, we know who all the top dogs are.