Rufus The Bum Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 USPSA has 5 divisions, why stop there? Why not a single stack division? I know it sounds silly, but there are alot of single stackers out there and lets face it, Limited 10 is dominated (for the most part) by the High-Cappers loading down to 10 (TGO being the exception) Revolver I would assume has the lowest classification count, but I would almost guarantee a single stack class would be huge. What does everyone else think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 As much as I would have liked Lim10 to have been a SS division, I would not like to see another division. IMO, 5 is enough. I think another division would only take away from what we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus The Bum Posted February 2, 2003 Author Share Posted February 2, 2003 Why do you think it would take away from what we have? I'm of the opinion that the single stack division could help bridge the gap better between IDPA and USPSA. ALOT of guys shoot single stacks in IDPA. I like the Single Stack Societies ideas, but I'm just not a big fan of carry holsters, I like to shoot with my race holster (which I happily already do) But it would be nice to have more single stackers, wishful thinkin eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriss Grube Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 It would have been ok from the start but not now. Too many matchs with 3-5 shooters in a division as is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Merricks Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 "Limited 10 is dominated (for the most part) by the High-Cappers loading down to 10 (TGO being the exception)" Not around here, L-10 is ruled by single stackers, then comes the glocks and other type of post ban stuff. I don't think there would be any need to add SS if L-10 is still present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck D Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 I'd love to see the " Fat Italian w/grey hair,over 35 yrs. old going to Law School division". Yea...that's what we need ! Seriously now, how diluted do we want our divisions to be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 "Seriously now, how diluted do we want our divisions to be?" Ditto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus The Bum Posted February 3, 2003 Author Share Posted February 3, 2003 I agree with the "lets keep it simple" phylisophy, and my intent isn't to start an argument, but I'd like to see a fair representation of what's actually on the market, shot at an IPSC match. Meaning? 95% of non-ipsc shooters today have no idea who STI, Caspian or Benny Hill is. But they are all familiar with Colt, Springield Armory or Para Ordanance. I just know so manly people with single stacks that have no desire to shoot IPSC because of the race-guns. That's what most non-ipsc shooters think (Well lets make a class for them.) In my personal opinion, I think Colt is Sh** because mine broke and needed some work done, I told them I shot it in competition and really liked their product and the salesman told me "Colt doesn't support USPSA anymore" Needless to say I sent it to someone else. Single Stack is at the very heart of USPSA in it's roots and I'd like to see it represented, if only in a dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriss Grube Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 Come on everybody knows Benny Hill. He had his own TV show. The guy was pretty funny too! There seems to be this big misconception that make a new division is going to suddenly big in all these shooters. Newsflash IT AINT GONNA HAPPEN! The majority of shooters are happy to go out a couple times a year and shoot at and maybe even hit some paper targets. The excuse about raceguns is just that an excuse. There are 3 divisions now where the stock guns can compete. The average shooter thinks he is a good shot and doesn't really want to go and find out that he sucks. The fear of failure stops more shooters than any perceived equipment issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 Dang! I agree with Chriss. That is probably the boiled down, hard truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
titandriver Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 Chris --- you hit it dude! Here's a true story: got stopped last Saturday evening on the way home from a USPSA match by an Idaho State Patrolman for speeding; after all the perfunctory BS about speed limits, safety, etc. we got to talking about guns & shooting. For over a half hour. I noiticed he was carrying a Glock 21; after he professed how much he loved shooting his Glock I invited him to participate in one of our USPSA matches. After he declined that offer I then told him about the "Glocks Only" Idaho state championship on March 23 that I am putting on. It was then that the real truth came out, he said" I'm not going out there and making a fool out of myself". This from a retired Marine and a current state trooper, subjected to untold hours of firearms training and weapons handling! Now this guy didn't hear about any "equipment race" or any other such foolishness; all he knew was that he feared embarassing himself in front of a bunch of people, mostly civilians, when called upon to demonstrate his prowess with his chosen firearm! No new division, no new class, no new category that USPSA can come up with will ever persuade this gentleman, and the millions of other firearm owners like him, to compete with us! I've said it for years: just because they own a gun does not mean they want to compete with it --- hoping new this or that will get them out competing with us is not likely. Oh yeah, I didn't get a ticket either; would've put me over my yearly quota! I am a big donor to the policemans ball though!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Pinto Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 New divisions are not necessarily aimed at getting people who have never before shot competititvely to suddenly get the urge. Many Police and other LEOs consider their guns to be another piece of equipment they're required to carry as part of their uniform, like a baton or handcuffs. They need them to do their job properly, but they have no intention of using them for competitive purposes. Part of the reason behind new divisions is to get people, who are already shooting competitiively under the auspices of another organisation, to play in our sandbox. New Divisions such as Production and Revolver are so that competitors who were already using those guns in other divisions can shoot against people with similar equipment (i.e. comparing apples with apples). To consider a single stack division, we'd need to consider the above questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhgtyre Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 " I'm not going out there and making a fool out of myself" Lol! I would never go out to shoot if I worried about that! A bull in a china shop has more grace than I do. I like shooting SS matches, I shoot my SS in limited class at our local steel match, but I don't see them needing their own division. I would like to see them allowed in Production though.... -ld Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogmaDog Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 I don't really feel homeless in Ltd 10 division shooting my single stack. There are a coupla dudes who download their S_I limited guns, and they do usually beat me, but that's because they're A class shooters, and I'm down in D, for the moment. I think they're just doing it so they can get classified in Ltd 10. Why? I dunno. If they're doing it so they can shoot against easy competition, then someday, I'm going to beat them, because I'm looking for tough competition. Anyway, most of the L10 competitors around here are shooting SS 1911s. Semper Fi, DogmaDog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Pinto Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 Just for the sake of clarity, Production Division would best be described as the "non-single-action" division. While I can't speak for the whole world, I'm willing to bet that single-action guns will never be allowed in IPSC Production Division, as those guns already dominate Open, Standard and Modified. I realise USPSA Production Division has a capacity limitation too, however that is secondary to the gun action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFD Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 Same thing here. Most local L-10 shooters shoot SS 1911s. The downloaded Limited gun shooters are looking for another classification or in the rare case they stink in Limited and think they can beat up on someone in L-10. Big news: If you suck in Limited, you will also suck in L-10, and that classification cheating won't be effective for long. For some odd reason, my best chance for an overall stage win against Open and Limited shooters is when shooting a speed stage with a couple of mandatory reloads. I don't actually win, but I beat well over half the Open and Limited shooters. I don't see a Limited gun by itself as a big threat, so while I think it would be OK to have L-10 as a SS only division, I'm happy if it stays unchanged. I think we have enough divisions that cover enough options. More would just water things down for no real gain. If you want to grab some IDPA shooters, or especially new shooters, then USPSA has got to do something to educate them that everyone in USPSA doesn't shoot a race gun, that L-10 and Production actually exist, and that you only compete against people in YOUR class, in YOUR division. This kind of thing is not my speciality at all, but something has to be done in terms of PR to get new shooters. I spend quite a bit of time at the range dispelling myths about USPSA. The IDPAers have heard all kinds of terrible things about us, and non-IDPAers can't get past the perceived "I have to have a racegun" issue. All the bad press USPSA has gotten from the gun rags in the past few years hasn't helped either. If we want to be big again in the gun rags, then we need a new division where everyone in the world needs to buy a new gun order to compete in that division. The gun writers/salesmen would jump all over that, and maybe mention our current divisions in the process. Perhaps an "Ultra-Tactical" division where everyone has to wear black BDUs and use thigh holsters, shooting guns with both lights and lasers. As sick as this is, we'd probably pick up new members from such a silly division. I originally believed that all we needed to grab IDPA shooters was to get them to shoot ONE IPSC match. Let the freestyle shooting, cool stages, and much higher round count show them the light. Now I'm not so sure. I see a lot of new/old shooters in IDPA who appear to really like the "instruction manual" stage descriptions, and the short easy stages. I don't know if they'd be impressed, or just scared of ISPC. Not everyone wants to solve problems for themselves, and I'm not so sure that IDPA is really the "pool of possible ISPC shooters" that some people think it is. I feel like I have to downshift both my thinking and my shooting for IDPA, in this day and age not a lot of people are fond of upshifting anything. I think we should stick with promoting L-10 and Production for new shooters who love to shoot and want a challenge. I'm not too sure that average IDPAer actually want a challenge, based on the local matches I've shot, and the shooters I've observed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriss Grube Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 Titandriver, Unfortunately most LEO's have the same problem. I had a LT. on the range last year bitching about being there rather than back in the office. Where else can you get paid forty bucks an hour to shoot. I think he got a little upset with me when I told him that he should quit whining that I go spend good money every weekend to shoot. Of course the same guy less than a week later was going home in the unmarked and came across a car wanted in a bank robbery. Guess where his gun was? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
titandriver Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 Chris --- if he's like our county sheriff (and a good friend) it was either in his desk or rattlin' around somewhere inside his vehicle! Either place, it was someplace where he didn't have quick access to it! Vince --- I wasn't pickin' on cops, just used him as a general example of what I've heard from lots of gun owners --- gettin' your ego trampled ain't much fun. Good thing my memory is totally trashed or I wouldn't leave the house! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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