gans

Where the barrel locks up depends on the brand you choose. 1- Some make their barrels a little oversize at the muzzle for final fitting to slide bore. The taper will begin about a 1/4" from the end. You will have full contact all around the barrel except at the very bottom. 2- Others, will make the muzzle end undersized. It will be turned down slightly smaller than the slide bore. This area will extend back to about 1" from the muzzle, then the taper will start there. The contact area will be at the bottom of the slide (each side of the lug cut) at the muzzle and at the top (about 1" back). The sides will not make contact. With (1), you can put the flutes anywhere except at the bottom where it contacts the slide (each side of center). With (2), you will still need the same contact area at the bottom. At the top is where you need to be careful. If you fit the barrel first then cut a flute through the top, you will be removing some of the contact area. It would be better to stop the flute before the contact and then start it again past the contact area. That would leave a pad at the contact area on top. Another way would be to flute the barrel first, then use the areas on each side of the flute for final fitting of the contact areas. Number of flutes and their placement makes a difference also. I would suggest flutes over turning down. Gary

I would not cut the 1-32 twist barrels short. I have been using them for years with good results. I think that they create less torque also.

I think that Nowlin barrels have the fastest twist ( 1-14" ). You might consider that also in your barrel choice.

You can cut the comp off, then turn the barrel down and thread to .575x40 for an inch. You can then install a modified coned comp on it. www.gansguns.com/fitcomp.html.

BarSto makes fine barrels. Just make sure that you know what you are ordering. If you want a barrel with shallow locking lugs like all the other major barrel makers are offering, you will need to order it with the Marine Corp Cut. Otherwise, you will get a barrel with standard locking lugs. The new match grade barrel will need to be fitted tight and right to get the most out of it.

If you want to take a chance, you can try heating the tab at the bottom and flattening it out some. That will make the spring a little longer. You might put a vise grip or C-clamp up where the prongs start. It will act as a heat sink so that you don't mess up the heat treatment there. If you don't get the tab hot enough though, you will crack it off when you start to flatten it.

If you are saying that the barrel has side to side and up and down play in it when the gun is together and locked up, then that is not typical. However if it has some play in it when it is apart but none when it is assembled, then that is OK.

How are you measuring the bushing to get .004" play? The bushing ID is sort of oval shaped so that the barrel can pivot up and down. If you measure at the front of the bushing from top to bottom, then it can be larger than the barrel DIA. To get a more accurate measurement, measure the bushing from side to side.

Personally, I have been talking about installing a Commander slide on a 2011 frame. I thought that was the question. Obviously, I should have left this stuff up to the Pros.

On a Commander slide, you need to use a Commander bushing which is a little shorter than the Gov't bushing. An Officers bushing will not work without machining out the slide for it. It is larger in diameter. An Officers barrel is actually a bull barrel. And the slide uses this bushing to hold the recoil spring system in. This is a weak system and is often replaced with the stronger reverse spring system. The recoil spring system on the Commander is the same as the Gov't except that it is shorter. You can cut a Gov't rod shorter and use it. You can also cut the Gov't springs shorter and use them. You will need to measure the weight of the spring after it is cut shorter so that you know what you now have. Or, you can purchase new Commander springs that already have the weight measured at the shorter length.

The .100" area is just in front of the slide stop hole on the frame. You can consider it the front of the rails or the rear of the dust shield if you want. On the Colt Commander frame, they moved this area rearwards. It is where the head of the guide rod will sit. It limits how far rearwards the slide will cycle. If you use a standard Government length barrel bushing, you will break something sooner or later. Remember, the slide will mover an additional .100" further rearwards. Since the bushing is held in the slide, the bushing will go back that amount also. It will then hit into the barrel lugs at that point. You should use the shorter Commander length bushing, it will take care of that problem. I am trying to figure all this out, myself. Kuhnhausen, Vol II, pg.138 says (re Colt Commander): 4 1/4 barrel; short, otherwise standard bushing; shorter recoil spring (Commander typical 24 coils); shorter recoil spring guide and recoil spring plug. Goes on to say that Commander slide length is the shortest recommend when going above 45ACP pressure. The idea there is that the shorter slide length changes the lock-up angle of the lugs. (Kuhnhausen talks about this very briefly, but it seems like a good nugget of info.) No mention of the things that I've been told to look for, and that have been mentioned here. The main things the I hear to look for are cutting the rails (I thought everybody said rails...I'll have to dig and see if that is actually what I read) back 0.100 when using a Commander slide on a standard frame, and the dustcover may look/be long. I am guessing that...what the point is...is that there is going to be some running out of room. Whatever is causing it will need adjusted so that the guns rearward travel is stopped as it should be. ??? My back burner project (and what I plan to use that STI single-stack frame I am getting from you for) includes: - STI 4.15 Colt Commander slide (that is how the packaging reads) - Nowlin Ramped 40 Commander bushing barrel (didn't come with a bushing, but Kuhnhausen has the specs, IIRC) I plan this to be a little test bed gun for a few ideas I have. GlockSpeed31, I think we are back on track. I hope you find some of this useful. It seems we are all on a similar path here...looking to put a commander slide and barrel on a government frame.

Take your slide off. Then look down the magwell from the top. Press the mag release in. Sometimes the release will go in too far and extend into the well. If it does, grind it down so that it doesn't extend into the well. Also, check the trigger bow. Sometimes they are more narrow than the mag well. You said that some drop a 1/2". See if they are sticking on the trigger bow at that point.

Hello Michael, The question that you asked can be confusing. Maybe I can help some. First, a STI frame will have oversize rails on it and it may take some machining to get the slide on. You will not know until you get one and take some measurements. As far as a Commander slide on a Government frame. If you cycle the slide rearwards until it hits the frame, you will find that the slide stop may not be able to engage the corresponding notch in the slide. You will not know for sure until you try it since there are tollerance that can vary this. 1-If it does, you are good to go. 2-If it almost does, but not quite- you can grind the slide stop a little shorter, grind the notch in the slide a little bit bigger, and turn head of the guide rod a little until you get it to work. 3-If it isn't very close, you will need to do what Colt does to the Commander frame. They machine the rear of the dust shield rearwards about .100". That lets the slide move rearwards enough so that the slide stop will be able to engage the notch in the slide. That also give the slide a longer cycling distance to absorb the recoil. That gives a softer felt recoil. Not as long and soft as the Gov't though. You will need to use the Commander length recoil spring system here. If you use one of the short STI slides, they will work on the frame as is since they machine the slide differently than the short Colt slides. They offer barrels that are the correct length for whatever length slide you choose. However, you will need to get the matching recoil spring setup to match whatever lenth slide and barrel that you choose. Each different length slide/barrel requires it own matching recoil spring system. If you are going to buy a short STI slide, make sure that you can get the correct barrel for it. They discontinue some models. I just got done building a 3.9" for a customer. STI could not supply the barrel for it. I had to cut down a longer barrel and sleeve it to make it work. You don't want to go through that. In conclusion, the shorter slides require their own matching recoil system. The cycling is shorter and the felt recoil will be more. That is a big reason why most will use the full size slide/frame setup and not the short ones. I hope that this helps you some and doesn't just confuse you more. I am sure that if I forgot something or made a mistake, someone will correct me. Good Luck, Gary

I have repaired the slides on nearly new stock Colt pistols as well. It can happen to any at anytime. Just get it repaired.

STI slide and frame is the best with an aluminum side mount and slide ride sight. STI slides and frames are machined very precisely and perfect results can be had. If you get a bald slide, you can machine it anyway you like for a true custom job. The only down side, is that they weigh a bit more and require more machining to lighten up. With a factory Para, you don't know what you will get. Sometimes they are machined OK. But, often things can be off and will require extra fitting to get them to work. And with the slide being finished, with sight cuts and serrations; you are limited to what custom work that can be done to them. Also, most of the internal parts are of poor quality and should be replaced. So, I don't know if it is really worth trying to make a racegun out of a factory Para. If you like the feel of the Para, it is best to get an oversize gunsmith frame. Then fit an STI slide to it. Now you have a better platform to work from. As far as sights go. I like the aluminum side mount so that you can tighten up the mounting screws good. Then us a slide ride C-More. If you are going to use this setup on a thin frame, then it is imperative that the drilling and tapping be done precisely for best results. And you will need to keep and eye on the screws for tightness. A Serendipity may be a better choice on the thin frames as far as the frame mounting holes go. The problem with the Serendipity, is that the mounting holes in the sight body often break.

I agree with both of your points. They are better, if give the choice. Wouldn't they be more expensive though?

C-More Serendipity works good since it mounts on both sides.

I shoot a Para Open gun that was originally built as a 38 Super in 1996. It started as the gunsmith frame. In 2005, I switched it to 9mm and love it. I also have a Para P18-9mm. I can shoot the same Major 9 ammo out of it with the factory barrel. I take it as a backup just in case my open gun goes down in a match. Same mags and pouches and just adjust the nose on the CR Speed holster. All I do to the P18 when I shoot the major loads is change the recoil spring to a 15 lb. Now if you want an open gun, you will want a comp and the factory barrel probably isn't going to do you much good for that. One idea is to get the P18 and then just build a comped top end with something like a Doctor sight on the slide to switch out when you want to shoot open. A coned comp works perfectly on a factory barrel.

Be careful when getting a Bar-Sto barrel. If you want a barrel with shallow locking lugs for tight lock up, their barrels don't have them unless you get the marine corp cut.

Bo-Mar, Novak fixed, Novak adj. Gans, the middle pic of the fixed novak sight is actually a SW cut, that uses their sw 3rd gen auto fixed sights. The dovetail is actually deeper on the novak sights. But the look is the very similar. A true Novak cut is the same whether its a fixed or adj. sight. Yep. The S&W wears a 3rd gen Novak sight that has a dovetail that is about .025 more shallow that the True Novak fixed sight dovetail. Also. The adj. Novak sight uses the same true dovetail cut, but the sight is longer than the fixed sight. The slide needs to be machined some forward of the dovetail to get it to fit a slide that is already cut for a fixed sight. The adj. sight is also taller than the fixed as well.

Bo-Mar, Novak fixed, Novak adj.

Excessive pressure will do that. The base of the bullet will mushroom a bit on ignition. If the pressure is excessive, the base will flatten out too much and a ring of brass will be shaved off. The following round will then fit through the ring and will not fully chamber because of the additional length of the ring.

If you look around, there are also other gunsmiths that can build true custom guns if you know what you want and need.

How much contact area does the barrel have? You can coat the locking lugs with a black magic marker then shoot a few rounds and see where the lugs are contacting. Do you have full lug engagement? If not, the barrel will need fitted correctly. Do you have all three lugs contacting? If not, measure the spacing of the slide lugs and the spacing of the barrel lugs and see which one is off and how much. If they are off a few thousands, the flanging may stop when they wear in and all 3 contact. If they are off considerably more, send the part back and get one that is correct.

Something different.