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I'm a pcc shooter and I don't see it as a big deal. As long as all pcc's start the same what does that matter. I kinda like the variety.

I must admit my ignorance here. I don't know what the exact rule is at a safe table. Can you have mags on your belt? In your range bag that you take your gun from? I don't know. But a safe table is different than bagging after a cof under an ro supervision. I still revert back to the last sentence of my last post, trust and common sense.

No ammo "out". Define out. Is that mag in hand, mag on belt 12" away from gun being bagged, where do you draw the line? As Rowdy said a couple of posts back, we have to have some amount of trust in people at these shoots. A shooter has just taken out the mag, has it in hand while he shows clear and you can't trust him to continue holding it while he bags it? Suddenly he is a danger to everyone? Also, as I believe Rowdy implies, we can't write rules and treat everyone as morons and try to cover every possible scenario. We need to use common sense and try to cover potential places for human error, not every what if...possibility.

In something like a steel challenge shoot where the start and stop position of the shooter doesn't change it is a lot more practical to have pcc uncase and case at the same spot. But in the usual uspsa stage the start and stop positions are not the same. Then when the shooter wants to follow around when scores are called that adds another element of time into things. When does he recase? Go back to start position, recase, then ro calls range clear and scoring can begin? All unnecessary, IMO, added time to shooting a stage. It seems much easier to allow flagged gun to be carried muzzle vertically up while shooter watches scoring then go to side berm and case. In the meantime next shooter who has uncased his flagged gun already at side berm is standing at start position waiting for ro . As for handling it at the side berm, dots,etc., as long as it's flagged and held vertically with muzzle up I don't see a problem with that. A flagged gun has been rendered inoperative.

thanks

I agree that uspsa needs to do a better job setting some rules for handling a pcc. There's too much inconsistency. Being a pcc shooter I'd have to disagree about your idea of no PCCs. It isn't a handgun match, it's a practical shooting match, as the name says. And I also agree that it should be muzzle up when carrying. Although, I was recently at a match where a couple of people had rifles-they could have been rimfire, this was a steel match-in carts and the rifles were pointed up, and not straight up either. Kinda right at themselves as they walked behind the cart. I didn't get close enough to see the flag though. Again, we need consistency in a bunch of pcc handling rules. There has been many years to work out all the rules for pistols, so it may just take a little more time to get it all sorted out for pcc.

Yeah, it not cool being swept. I'm not necessarily advocating to change anything, more an observation than anything else. We -action shooting type events- do place a lot more emphasis on sweeping though I think. At a skeet or trap match people walk around with shotguns broken open and it's different altogether.

I have thought of doing this too, but wasn't sure which side to file. I'm thinking the top side of the slot (the side closest to where the bullets go in ). Correct?? Did it hace any effect on feeding and/or mag drop?

You are still "sweeping "them. The gun is just inside the case. Yet we all consider that safe. Do you know always what the condition of that gun is inside of that case?? If I see a flag in the action I know it it safe.

As long as a rifle has a flag in it I really don't see the difference in that or in a case. It cannot be fired. No one seems to worry about which way it is pointed or if it sweeps anybody as long as it's in a case. Hell, it could be loaded, off safe with a hair trigger and loose stuff rattling around in there and no one would know. At least when flagged you can see it is safe.

I would have liked to watch that Stoeger video, but couldn't tolerate that crappy noise in the background.

USFSA is already taken---United States Figure Skating Association. I used to belong.

No, but I'm not complaining about those terrible pcc shooters who bring a rifle to a pistol shoot. I shoot both, but since I suck with a pistol I like pcc better. I'm just trying to come up with ideas so we can all shoot together in peace.

You and I may know that but all the whiners that see a pcc ahead of them and think we have some kind of advantage over them don't. BTW, what is HOA?

Something just occurred to me. Pat Jones is right, this really all comes from the pcc shooters (and I am one) being lumped into the combined results. so why not keep them/us separate? I THINK it could be done within existing practiscore systems. When the match is created in PS you would actually create two matches, one pistol-one pcc. Shooters then register in which one they prefer. On match day pcc shooters would all be squadded together with their scoring pad synced to the pcc shoot. If the numbers were such that you needed to mix a squad that squad would have two pads with it. At the end of the shoot the pads would be synced to their respective matches and posted to PS. I don't think it would require any extra pads to be bought by the club since clubs usually have one or two extras anyhow. And you still have the same number of entries as if they were all mixed together, you're just separating them and assigning a pad to them. Maybe a few clubs might need one extra to be bought if they are running on a bare minimum already. Pcc shooters are always saying we are not shooting against the pistol shooters anyway, so let's make it a definite distinction.

I have had an idea about this for a while and this thread seems the perfect opportunity to ask. A perfectly fine starting position for pistol is loaded in holster (safety on where applicable) and, since it's in a holster it would be pointed vertically-down. On an uprange start one cannot begin drawing until you have turned and gotten past the 180 mark or it will be a DQ. PCC shooters are allowed to bring their gun uncased but flagged to the starting position carried in a vertical manner, usually pointed up from what I've seen. Could we not have the PCC shooter, after load and make ready facing down range, with safety on, hold gun vertically up and turn and face uprange for the start. Weak hand could even be naturally at side if cof so described. If the shooter began dropping the gun from vertical before getting past the 180 he would be DQd same as a pistol shooter would. To me, this would be a safe and effective way to even out the difficulty of uprange starts.

I'm using the RMR 124 fmj rn bullet with wsf powder at ~1.135 oal in both my pistol and pcc. For the pistol I load at 4.3 gr of powder, and 4.1 gr for the pcc. All I have to change on the press is rotate the micrometer dial on the powder measure. Both shoot at 130 pf.

Hey, another person with a Colt ar-9. I was beginning to think I was the only one. I bought a Rhino 23 (? I can't remember the exact name but that will get you there with google). It's not perfect but it does help a lot, and it was cheap. About $23 if I remember correctly.

Thanks for the tips.

about assemblies, I have toyed with the idea of having some sort of tank or something I could just fill with oil (I like ballistol) and dip the assemblies down into for a few seconds, then let them drain.

What about sonic cleaners forguns and gun parts? I just bought a Hornady 9L cleaner. Any tips, do's and don'ts, etc??