Schutzenmeister

You already had that option under 1.1.5.1 ...

Yes -- that's the only way that you can have more than 8 rounds from a single position or view..... Unless there are eight or fewer rounds in the course of fire. Hmm ... Then what is the difference between that and a SHORT CoF? or, in the case of 16 rounds with a reload, a MEDIUM CoF under rule 1.1.5.1? I fail to see the usefullness of this new rule.

Actually ... I think he needs a 2% or better score for each one to count!

Thanks Nik ... I'm afraid I was in a bid of a snit yesterday WRT the rule changes. I do apologize ... especially to Gary, if he somehow took my response personally. Gary is one of the true class-acts in our sport. I've looked over the changes, some of them are rather mundane, others (IMHO) insane and/or redundant. In any case, I won't waste anyone's time or patience here with my opinion on the matter ... I'll just summarize my readings and send a copy to my AD. Thanks for putting up with me!

Question: Notwithstanding the "effective date" at the top of the posting, this forum is officially 'not official' as a publication of intrepretations and rule changes, as I understand the procedures. I just reviewed the 'official' USPSA web site and the rules page ... I see no mention of these changes. Accordingly, when will these changes be posted to the 'official' site and, once posted, how long after they are posted do they become 'enforceable'?

I was the "unfamiliar" RO who spotted it at Nats ... Bob and I have joked about this on several occasions. I spotted it, referred it to the CRO, who in turn called the RM. The RM said (in effect) 'Welcome to Open, Bob.' It would seem the "unfamiliar" ROs were the ones who preceded me ... I knew the rule and properly referred it up the chain. I think Bob's over it now ... I haven't seen grip tape on his slide since!

I'm just guessing here, but it might be partially due to the fact that the US Production Challenge you speak of is neither a USPSA nor an IPSC match. I believe it's listed on USPSA's match list as a courtsey.

what we were told at the nationals was that uspsa considered the larue to be a plate, not a popper...therefore, no way to calibrate them. ??? I thought that's what I just said ... by way of the rule book ...

Any reason not to just use the 9mm that is used for every other steel target? Actually, yes ... The USPSA Rifle Rules, Appendix C1 spell out the calibration procedures for rifle targets. You must use a rifle. The calibration rifle and ammo must have a 150 PF (+/- 5%). Just like HG, the initial calibration must be from the furtherest distance in the CoF to the target. Just like HG, any challenge must be shot from as close to where the shooter shot it as possible. The problem is that the LaRue target has no specified calibration zone for the test. Hence it is more like a falling plate in that respect. ANY hit which does not knock it over is an automatic REF. (Rifle 4.3.1.6.) This is what led to the problem at the recent MG Nationals.

Personally, I use a Level 2 holster from Blackhawk. It's actually for the standard length slide, but it works just fine for the long slde. Slide and barrel stick out about 3/4 inch below the holster, but there's no problem on the draw.

"Typical" DQ's in a major match are usually in the 2-3% range of all shooters ... 14 shooters out of 390 works out to about 3.6% ... A little high, but not terribly unexpected (unfortunately!)

Ken Just remember that if you shoot any "IPSC Rules" WS qualifier matches in the US, the answer is NO! It's perfectly OK for USPSA rules matches only.

I have a small bullet casting business on the side, and I hate to bust your bubble. Lead prices have been climbing rather steadily for the past 2-3 years. Same with antimony. (Tin has been relatively calm.) Trust me ... There's a LOT more lead in your jacketed bullet than there is copper or zinc! I'm planning a 15% price increase for 2007 and probably another 15% for 2008 just to cover my increased costs in alloy.

I had a similar problem with my 625 a couple of years ago. What everyone is telling you is totally possible ... but it wasn't the main problem with my gun. I was shooting with Jerry M at his place in LA one afternoon and the gun started giving me the exact problem you describe. I had Jerry shoot it for a while and he finally figured out wht my problem was. Remember, the hand makes contact with 6 small keys on the back side of the yoke to rotate the cylinder. The problem on my gun was that the keys were badly worn causing the hand to slide off to the side as you describe. This was leading to under-rotation and all the problems you note. I sent the gun to S&W (with a hand-written note from JM ... THANKS!) describing the problem. It took them about 2 months to work it through the que in their shop, but they replaced the cylinder & yoke assembly, put in a new hand, cleaned everything up and returned the gun to me. The best part was that the only thing it cost me was shipping the gun to them and doing without it for a couple of months. (I even told them I had had the gun for several years and had purchased it used when I got it ... Now THAT'S customer service!!!) I couldn't be happier! Hope all goes well in your repair efforts ...

Something in the picture to help determine size might be helpful ... Say a quarter or a ruler.

I'm not sure, but I think the V-Comp will put you in Open Revolver due to the comp. The standard PC model should be OK in Standard Revolver. Have you considered the 327 with Scandium alloy frame and Titanium cylindar? (Same as the 627, but WAY lighter!)

On the ICORE side of your question ... Virtually ANY holster that is IDPA or IPSC acceptable will be OK for ICORE.

If you REALLY want to test reloads, put a Standards course in ... Otherwise the name of the game is freestyle.

I took a revo lesson with JM once ... It's not that his hands are really all that huge (I'd say they measure an average men's large in size ...). It's more that he has a grip that's like a vise.

Strange ... I'd be troubled to name one.

You might have him contact Bill Helm in Jackson ... Bill is a USPSA Range Master/Instructor, and (bonus here), a real estate agent there in town.

We just finished our monthly match earlier today and, when I sat down at home to enter the results I found that one shooter, on one stage, did not have a time recorded. As the match is torn down and everyone gone home (i.e., no opportunity to order a reshoot at this point), how do I score his sheet? (Note: The hits are all recorded, but no one recalls what his time was.) I know how to handle this for an IPSC match, but the scoring system is somewhat different for ICORE and I don't see where this is addressed in the rulebook. I want to be fair to the shooter, and not penalize him excessively in the match overall by too much time being added. What's the propper way to handle this in stats under ICORE rules?

Thank you Neil ... A stellar example of using the rules DURING course design to ensure the shooter does what the designer intends. As described by you, this course would now not be worth trying to game by blowing off the reload and intentionally taking the penalty. George: Please forgive me for driving a virtual Mac Truck through your course description. Sometimes that's the best way to show where the hole in the design is. The point I'm trying to get across is that we should use the rules of the sport to design the course in such a way as to get the shooter to do what the course designer had in mind. Trying to impose the designer's will on the shooter by way of denying points contrary to the rulebook, or by imposing a DQ per say 10.6.1 are poor substitutes for good course design. All this does (IMHO) is to set up or further the perception of "us v. them" with respect to match officials and the competitors.

George I'm like you in some ways ... except I tend to try to use the rules in my favor to give me an advantage over someone who bends them in course design and expects the shooters to all comply. Would you like to wager I can get a higher HF by accepting the penalty for the blown-off reload and just shooting the 6 targets as fast and accurate as I can? It's only one 10 point penalty the way you've worked it ... I think I could trade that 10 points against the time wasted in the reload to beat you ... Try it both ways some time ... See what the results are. The rules are written the way they're written to help keep gamesters like me from driving a Mac Truck through the holes you want to write into the CoF. They're there to keep the sport about shooting skills and not to test my ability to know when to game a stage for advantage. Just food for thought ...

hi bjöen jes I am it the rules is 9mm diameter and 19mm long and the brass is 18.89 and not permitted ont spruiten u nu revolver of wat WHEEL-Gunner A good question ... However I believe the 19mm measurement applies only to 9mm. (Hence one cannot use a 9mm Kurz (.380 auto). I don't believe the 19mm restriction applies to larger calibers, though I could be mistaken. Bjöen: I know a couple of folks who have tried the 45 GAP in their 625 and there seems to be some slight advantage in reloads ... The empties seem to clear the chambers just a little sooner. I'm not sure it's quite worth the extra cost of the brass, IMHO!