boo radley

Did a quick search, and didn't see anything, and I'm curious about the ruling on this: I brought a new shooter out to a local USPSA match this weekend. On his first stage he did not start in accordance with the stage briefing (briefing specified starting with gun on a ledge; he started with it holstered). He received a procedural. He said he hadn't known/remembered hearing what the start position was, and there was no physical WSB on the stage. In truth, the RO hadn't remembered, either, from the walk-through briefing.... Out of idle curiosity, is this a legitimate procedural? Yes, if I read 10.2.2...However rule 8.2.2 seems to imply that if the competitor isn't at the proper starting position, he shouldn't have been started to begin with, no? Thx

So you are providing the proof in your post. That we all shoot about 10% worse at Nationals. So what you are saying if I am a 80%. That when I go to nationals I will shoot a B class score. If so then I should probably be B class shooter. That would be more accurate than saying I am a 80% shooter but at Nationals I will probably shoot a 70%, so really I am a B class shooter. If your 10% number is correct than thats were the system is flawed. I just don't know of any sport that people take credit for a win, when they used the system to keep them in a certain class for thier benefit. It just underminds the integrity of this sport. And thats another thing that is majorly flawed. Well...the *winners* don't shoot 10% worse. IMO, the important thing here, is the relative relationship between classes is preserved, and that is more important than the actual percentage, because the 100% match point value comes from a single shooter's performance. In my example, let's give the average score of the GM's a 100% value. Now it breaks down thus: 100% GM 91% M 82% A 74% B 60% C or in the other match... 100% GM 86% M 81% A 70% B 58% C A raw average isn't great, but you get the idea. It's like taking a Corvette, a Honda Accord and Geo Metro. Put them on a drag strip, and call that your classifier, and rank the other cars relative to the 'Vette's time. Now, go run races - you can say the race tracks are very different from a drag strip, with curves, etc., but until the Metro starts beating the Accord, or the Vette almost loses to the Accord, your ranking system is functional. Anyway, just my ramblings. There's a certain elegance to the classification system that really impresses me. It can probably be improved in certain ways, but at what cost, and what specifically is broken that needs fixin'?

Well, with all respect to you and Paper Killer, I think it's time for some math. Y'all keep saying "this" is broken, or "that" doesn't represent the actual skills need in a match, but show proof that there isn't a statistical correlation between current classifier ranking and major match performance. On *average* do folks not shoot up to their classification at major matches? Yeah, about 10% worse. But that's true across *all* of the classes. Here's a game. I'll throw out raw averages from the 07 Open Nationals, and I'll bet $5 anyone here can match class (GM,M,A,B,C) to average: 83%, 57%, 65%, 43%, 74%. Or '07 A6 LTD: 60%, 70%, 47%, 89%,75%

That is good info. I've been shooting a lot of MB's this year, because the cost is pretty reasonable. I have chrono'd my major 40 load, but not my minor 40 nor 9mm. For minor 40 I used ~3.7gr of TG or n320, and found it made 150pf at the last match. Zippier than I'd have liked. Last night I just shot a bunch of 125grn 9mm out of a G17 on top of 4.1gr of TG, and they too felt a tad hot. I'm thinking 3.9 should be perfect. Hate how MB's smoke with TG, however, but I don't have another powder measure, and I'll live with it.

Thx, SA! Not a ton of work, just a pain 'cause Excel only allows you to apply 3 conditions, when conditionally formatting. Here's another one only of the Nationals, in this order, 'cause the formatting got screwed: 2007 Open, 2007 L10, 2006 LTD, 2006 Open and 2006 Prod. A couple things stand out to me. First, no classes are ever "jumped". IOW, you will never get to a B shooter before at least one Master and A. Second, the very best M shooters beat the best A shooters, but in the middle there, M and A are pretty jumbled. Interesting stuff. The anomalies do stand out, don't they? (white spaces are "U" )

Well...First, there are a number of classifiers that require movement. Not as much as I'd like, but then again, many stages we shoot don't require as much movement as I'd like, either. Second -- many stages are nothing BUT a linked set of classifier-like arrays. The skills need to manage ye Old Typical Classifier are *exactly* those needed to handle the array, when you come into shooting position: visual patience, accuracy, speed, shot-calling, etc. Third, weak-hand/strong-hand shows up sometimes. I only have a couple years experience in USPSA, and don't shoot that many majors, but I see these stages on occasion. This year's Florida Open stage 6 -- "Banker," for example. Finally, it seems to me that major match performance pretty much reflects the classification break-down of it's participants. You wouldn't see this correlation if the skills were that dissimilar. Below I quickly cut 'n pasted the results rom 2006 A6 Limited into Excel, and gave each classification a color coding. I ignored "D". Yellow is GM, aqua is M, green is A, blue is B and red is C. So. I kinda disagree. It's a system with some potential for abuse, obviously, and the intentional or unintentional performance that's vastly different than a classification would suggest. Still -- what's a better solution? At worst, it's yet another objective measure of at least some sorts of shooting ability.

Out of curiosity, who among the very best shooters uses the 6" slide in Limited/L10? Are they pretty popular at the highest level? Why or why not?

What a great thread. I've been bitterly disappointed in my performance at all but one of the handful of "big" matches I've shot this year. It's no fun when you don't even give a damn about the remaining stages, and start counting the minutes until you can hop into your car. In every case, it's from pushing. The good, or at least interesting, lesson I've learned, is that pushing too hard after you've shot a great stage produces the IDENTICAL result as pushing after a trashed stage (when I usually do so). I'm still on a search for the proper slot to stick my psyche at matches. One thing I know for a fact, is that if you cruise along at the perfect space within your ability, yet focusing solidly....sooner or later you'll hit a stage in the "zone."

Don't forget Sir Walter, either, just off I-85 in NC. They put on a terrific match every 1st Saturday (www.ncsection.org)

Hmmm...in NC, from what I've noticed, I would *guess* that L10 is still predominantly (maybe 60%?) 1911, with another 20% Glocks, and the remaining 20% 2011's and "other" -- XD's, etc. I do think the provisional SSD has bled off a few die-hard 1911 shooters, but that's neither here nor there. It does seem a catch-all, too, for folks that have non-1911's, but chambered in .40 or .45.

Bzzzzzzzt. Shitty idea. Why so fast to abridge American's 4th Amendment rights?? Second, correct me if I'm wrong, but under the "Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reform Act" (aka the "Welfare Reform Act", passed under President Clinton): Person convicted of drug-related felony: States must permanently deny all Title IV-A cash assistance and food stamp benefits to individuals convicted of felony drug possession, use, or distribution. Third, who -- besides some of y'all -- want the federal government to grow and spend more money on drug testing programs and bureaucracy? Or farm the drug testing out to private companies in bed with some congressman? Either way, it would cost us more $$. Finally, who give's much of a f*ck about welfare spending? I mean, when talking about wasteful government spending, where to start??

Man! There's GOT to be a story there! This was flying 'stand-by'? 10 hours driving AND a nightmare at the airports? <shudder>

Even when he's NOT in the lead, he gets an inordinate amount of camera time, IMO. And hell; I usually cheer for the guy. What I *like* is, this year some co-workers and I have had a pool for each of the Majors. You 'draft' 4 players, with no one being able to pick the same player (nor Tiger), and the pot is split between the person picking players with the lowest combined stroke total and the highest combined purse. It's most fun -- it's also amazingly difficult to have 4 out of 4 make the cut. It's also amusing to see who the talking heads pick as likely champions: "Our writers pick 10 players to win the British Open"....Someone, I think from SI, picked Davis Love III. Yeah, right. Almost as bad a colleague who picked: Cabrera, Sterne, Sabatini, and Verplank. Yours truly took BOTH pots with a stable of: VJ Singh, Harrington, Choi (amazing he was still on the board in the 3rd round), and a very disappointing Allenby.

I'm not terribly fond of El Nino, though I wish nothing bad towards him. <shrug> However -- golf television coverage. Please, just show golf. Please. And quit killing off players so early on Sunday. Christ, it's 30% ads, 30% other crap like commentaries, swing analysis, high-tech wire-frames of holes , 20% Tiger exclusively, and 20% golf.

That *was* a really nice match. I'm a bit troubled by how poorly I shot, but regardless -- great stages, great staff, and a really fun squad. I enjoyed meeting a few Enos forum members, and found out one is going to become a Tarheel. (Hiya Bruce!). Met Flex and Steve Moneypenny, too, for the first time. It's funny -- normally I prepare all my gear and fret and worry needlessly. This time I trusted my Lee FCD completely and didn't case-gauge a round. Nor did I chrono -- figured there was plenty of load data on .40 minor, which there is. So on the first stage, had a horrible jam, that I made worse by "helping" the slide closed. And, my Production load ran 150 pf. I also don't know the rules as thoroughly as I should. I stopped myself mid-stage, when I came across a target that was un-pasted. Mistake, and my fault. I started up again after a fair pause, but lost my place. Ugh. But none of the above much matters when you're throwing a mike or two, stage after stage after stage, and C and D hits. It's crazy, and frustrating. Even El Pres, which I was psyched for, never having shot it in a 'real' match, was disappointing after shooting it in 6.13 -- for me, right fast -- but with 6 C's. 48 bloody points. I thought the stages were most excellent. A lot of them seemed simple, as Turtle says, but a single step too far, and you wouldn't see a target. Can't say enough for the staff, either. They were cheerful, and efficient. I noticed after some long damn days, Linda was regularly updating the scores, and offered to take cell phone #'s, if some folks were going to be on the road, and unable to check scores(!!!). Good stuff, and great match.

Craig -- all joking aside, I'm starting to think this question *does* have to do with threats. Here's why: the entire concept of 'cover' is threat related. If you don't consider a threat 'neutralized' how can one ever slice the pie and engage other threats? In other words, suppose you're behind a barricade with three targets on the other side. Using cover, you engage T1, now, you lean out a little more. Are you still using cover? YES! Are you exposed to T1? Yes, but it doesn't matter because you've engaged it. Below is a made-up stage diagram. IMO, a door way, and hall. IMO, after engaging the targets from A1, the shooter should be able to use any legal reload on the way, before, or at A2, no?

And the real answer is, it depends on the SO, the club, the club's MD, time of month, the EXACT stage, and how much your STI ESP gun pisses someone off. I don't think steel vs. paper is germane in this case. The answer "should" be NO, BUT! Try this T-shirt on -- You come to the doorway to a hall. Using cover, you shoot the poppers/targets, which are in the hallway. You proceed to the end of the hall, where again you peek around and engage some other targets...from...well, cover. So if the hallway is cover you can use to engage another array, why isn't it cover you can use in which to reload?

I actually hate the idea of off the clock reloads. Ammunition management is a skill that should be tested. There shouldn't be any time outs during a senario. Well...The rule book just discourages tactical and RWR reloads ON the clock in favor of slide-lock reloads; it doesn't say reloads should be "off the clock." The rule book also cites "Statistics show that this happens in the real world"...(one of many references in the rule book that help explain the genesis of the schizophrenia with 'real world' vs. 'game'). I agree with the others about the cover call. Ask the SO, and hope that, if they're embedded, the call is consistent. The rule book is nicely unambiguous on this, but stages and the SO's are not.

gas is killing everybody, and it's also strangling our economy. That fuel cost runs through every single thing we buy and the inflation is already taking off.Too bad we can't get people to conserve. Maybe when it's $10/gallon? Not a rebuttal just something else to think about - Too bad we can't drill for oil right here at home and build some new refineries so that when there is a problem with one another one can pick up the slack! It's too bad the global economy is such that there are vast populations starting to recognize a way of living we -- as United State citizens -- have basically monopolized for the last 100 years or so. <shrug> We're 5% of the global population, yet use 25% of the energy -- not 'cause we're especially wanton, or lazy, but because 80% of our citizens live in comparative wealth. When folks in China start driving SUV's, too, well...ya' ain't seen nothing yet. Drill for more oil, no doubt. Build more refineries (be assured, both will be subsidized by taxpayers, and fed from the corporate welfare teat)but...do you think we'd really be the only customer? Or entitled to special pricing, from, uh, a sense of heretofore misplaced patriotism, by the oil co.'s? As far as tax affecting price, sure. It's too heavily taxed. Tell your State and Federal representatives to quit spending so much money. They listen really, really well. And yes -- I hate the high prices, too, and I hate that my truck get 18mpg, but is still cheaper to drive than buying a 3rd (!) car that's significantly more fuel efficient.

Lots and lots of options. Without putting another dollar into your gear (assuming you have mags and holster), you could shoot Limited 10 (major pf) and be at no disadvantage; possibly an *advantage*, with an easier reload vs. single-stacks. You could buy 2-3 mag extensions (@$30), and shoot Limited. You could buy a G17/G34 'upper', and some 9mm magazines, and switch back and forth -- a couple hundred cheaper than a 2nd gun. You could just go ahead and buy not only a 2nd Glock, but also reloading equipment. You'll get there, anyway. There are also some 40/9mm conversion barrels. They're not Production legal, but I can't imagine anyone noticing or caring, if you shoot one while you get your 40 reloading squared away. Or, just keep shooting Production? The 40 makes a larger hole, and handling the snappier pistol will be good for the soul. <grin>

Amen, brother.

You suggested this drill a couple months ago, when I first had access to a plate rack, and I tried it. Don't hate me for this, but I voted "1" -- or "VA count plates are tough enough." Here's my splatter: 1) It's a very, very tough drill for those of us average (~"B") shooters. Kinda hurts the psyche when you leave lots of plates standing -- just saying, is all. You should label this "Advanced". 2) It's a minor PITA constantly changing the par times for all those strings. 3) The order is funky -- the 1,6,2...stuff. This is never the way I've shot an array of steel at any match, so when I get rare chance to practice on an actual plate rack, I want to shoot it L-R, and R-L, as I would when I come around the corner and see a bunch of poppers. All that said, I'm going to practice in a little bit, and I'll try it again. I have to look up the Bianchi par times again -- you should put those in the drill, as many folks won't know them.

That's a strong card you played. Mongo like margaritas. Heh. I also grilled last night, and made a small batch of margaritas for my wife, myself, and a friend who's husband is out of town. It was with genuine respect, that I handled the bottles. A recent memory of my wife telling an in-law "Oh, Steve makes the best margaritas*," and an ensuing "Margarita Cook-Off" is still fresh in memory, and I remember, uh, someone proclaiming loudly that the, "best margarita is just...<pouring a couple generous ounces> a really good tequila on the rocks with a squeeze of lime....," after 3 or 4 entries. <shudder> Anyway. Margaritas, steaks ( 1 rib-eye, 1 tenderloin, 1 strip, because women are like that), potatos, and asparagus on the (charcoal) grill. Very nice, and gorgeous weather for NC; not a bit humid. * I make no such claim, but here's my recipe, largely stolen from someone else, I'm sure. The key is really good tequila -- this is where the bigots start blabbing about blue agave, etc, but basically any bottle that makes you say, "Wow - I just paid $40 for a bottle of tequila!". I'm partial to Conquistador, but whatever... Start by rinsing the dust off the glasses, and putting in the freezer. Juice a couple *real* lemon and limes...Like 3 of each. Add a heaping teaspoon of powdered sugar, stir, and put aside. (Granulated, or 'regular' sugar, won't dissolve nicely). Dig through the drawers and find the 1/2 cup measuring scoop, and your cocktail shaker, or two large glass tumblers. Pour 1/2 cup of tequila into the shaker. Add 1/4 cup, or a bit more, of triple sec. Add a little less than a cup (see how handly the 1/2 cup measure is?) of the lemon/lime mixture. Fill shaker with ice, and shake. I mean shake the bejesus out of it. Margarita should be icy cold, and frothy. Salt the rims of the glasses you've pulled from the freezer, and strain and pour from the shaker. This makes two margaritas, with enough citrus juice mix left for a second round....

Not to sound pessmistic, but I don't see that happening. If you were a teen again...would YOU want to hang out in a structured environment, with folks your parents age, very few girls, no drugs, nor music, nor peer recognition....? Then there are the equipment costs, and reloading issues with attention to detail, and travel/match expenses, again with folks much older than you. Etc. And the upside to the work required to improve, probably isn't going to resonate well, either. Sadly, I think there's a reason for the demographics we have. I think the key is heavy recruitment at ranges, public and private. At least at that point, you have a pre-qualified prospect.

Nice video! And Sharyn's too.... Interesting to see the stages...it didn't seem like this match had anything that I typically think of as a "field course" with a great deal of running and movement. The stages looked pretty "contained". Is that true of most Nationals? Shred, in the video, you appear absolutely relaxed and efficient.