Cuz
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Posts posted by Cuz
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I hear you Sarge.
Heck, we haven't even started to talk about the variations in chrono readings based on time of year and temperature. I've chrono'd the same batch of ammo as a sort of "calibration test" about 10 times over the last 5 years and gotten some interesting spreads. It was from a loading spree back in 2016. I'll be shooting the last of that batch this weekend. Then I'll be done with Berry's and moving on to Precision Delta's and Zero's for the most part. I'm not too crazy about my foray into coated bullets over this past year. But, the brands I did try were certainly all plenty good enough for the games we play.
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Ya see, I need you guys to reinforce that fact that a reasonable amount of tolerance is acceptable in the games we play. If your OAL, charge weight, actual bullet weight, etc. are off a little it really doesn’t matter, at least not with 9mm minor PF ammo.
Thanks.
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3 hours ago, SGT_Schultz said:
Reloading for practical pistol is really super simple. In my experience I'm getting more than acceptable accuracy and consistency doing as little as possible.
I think that about sums it up. I tend to over-complicate most things. -
1 hour ago, Eric802 said:
Same. If I'm shooting for 3.4gr and my total for 10 is 33.9-34.1, I'm happy.
I agree with that, BUT,if it’s 33.1 or 34.9 would you make any adjustments?
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6 hours ago, GrumpyOne said:
When I set up a new load, I throw 10 charges and weigh all 10 together and then divide by 10. That gives you the average charge weight. So, if I throw 10 charges and I'm looking for a load of 3.2 per charge, I end up with 32 grains in the pan. Since most scales may only read .00, this will give you a more accurate reading (if your charge is a little over 3.2, your 10 charge weight will reflect this....32.8 EG.)
That’s a good point, now that you mention it I think I remember reading that on This site back when Brian was selling Dillon stuff. It was in his helpful info section. I had forgotten about that. It would have saved me about a $100 on the scale I bought as it wouldn’t need to be so sensitive. I gotta remember to ask questions BEFORE buying rather than after, while I’m waiting for it to arrive…
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8 minutes ago, KLWorkman said:
I verify the weight a few times when I start to load, like at 10 rounds 25 rounds and then 50. After that I watch the powder station to verify a round gets a proper fill. I think a range of plus or minus one tenth grain is fine.
I have a Dillon 550 and a Star loader and feel their powder measure is adequate for any pistol situation. A tenth of a grain is mathematically about 1/8" at 25 yards.
I can load ammo that shoots less than 2" at 50 yards on my Star with thrown powder charges.(Bullseye powder) I just tested a stock CZ 75B with WW231 powder and a cast bullet. Groups were 1 3/4" at 20 yards. This is with no load development just fit the bullet to the bore and picked a charge of WW231 that was compatible with my lead hardness.
The pistol will be far more accurate than the shooter. Work on the shooter development and not load development.
Lol, but it’s so much easier to obsess about load development…
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38 minutes ago, Sarge said:
MAYBE every 500 rounds. I have a uniquetek micrometer bar and it’s always right where I set it every time I check.
My 650 throws accurately no matter how much powder is in the hopper.
Just curious Sarge, have you ever weighed 10 consecutive charges? Also, what is the sensitivity level of your scale? 0.1gr, 0.05gr, or maybe 0.02gr? I only ask, because most reloading scales are accurate only to 0.1gr which means that 10 consecutive charges all weighing 3.8 gr on the scale could actually be anywhere from 3.75 - 3.84gr. If you accept an accuracy range of +/- 0.1gr it really means you accept from 3.65-3.94 which is really a .3gr difference.
of course the big question is does it matter, and how much does it matter. That’s why I’m asking all of you.
thanks for the response.
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Ok, the thread on OAL variance has convinced me to ask a question I've wondered for a while. When reloading, how often do you stop to verify the weight of a powder charge in the case, and when you do, what is an acceptable range from your desired charge?
I load on a Dillon RL550B, and when I'm loading, I tend to verify the charge weight about 4 times per 100 rounds. Three times is somewhat random, and the 4th is always when the low primer buzzer goes off. My scale measures out to .05 gr. So if I'm loading 3.8gr of TiteGroup I will accept anywhere from 3.75 - 3.85. If it's higher or lower, I dump it into the powder bin and continue loading. I keep a little scorecard of each weight, and if it starts to drift over a few consecutive weighed charges, I "may" make an adjustment. I will admit that I very rarely make an adjustment, so I know I could eliminate most of the verifications and be fine, but I do it anyway.
I do notice that the weights tend to drift a little between a full powder hopper, a half full hopper, and an almost empty hopper. I solve this by filling it, and then topping it off every 200 rounds or so. This keeps things running pretty smoothly.
My BIG problem is that I just ordered a new scale that measures out to 0.002 so now there will be slightly more variations in weight. I'm hoping this more sensitive scale doesn't cause my OCD to go through the roof.
Anyway, what do you all do?
I guess I will also add that all of the above is pretty easy to do on the manual indexing RL550. But, I have a new RL1100 that I'll be setting up soon and I think it will be harder to keep up that regiment.
Thanks,
-Cuz
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Nice, a weekend with 3 granddaughters at that age must have been a blast. I certainly hope weekends like that are in my future. My guys were a lot of fun at that age. I thought they were expensive back then, but at the rate they go thru ammo, I'm rethinking whether it cost more back then or now.
Ok, you have motivated me, so I went and measured about 50 of the 300 rounds I loaded this weekend, and the range was from 1.0835 - 1.0920. This is pretty much the range of OAL (+/- .005) that I've always gotten across any bullet brand. This is with plain old mixed range brass so I'm ok with it. As long as the longest OAL feeds and plunks reliably I just never worried about it. I am loading on a 25+ year old RL550B press.
I see similar spreads when I chrono my ammo, but as long as they all have a PF between 128-132 I just don't worry about it. I've only shot 1 match in my entire life that had a chrono stage, but I like to always follow the rules and I'm confident my ammo would pass in my kids Glock 17, my other kids STI, and my Glock 34. There's a couple of PF difference between them, and the Ruger PCC is in the 140's so that's no problem.
You have also motivated me to inquire about powder charges and acceptable ranges, but that's a thread drift, so I'll start a new topic for that.
Good luck when you do get to the range, keep us posted.
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What do you want to use it for?
concealed carry?
Competition?
general range use?
Consider a nice kydex from Vedder, or BladeTech. If it’s not for concealed carry, then consider getting a holster for a Glock 34, so if you later acquire additional Glocks with longer barrels it will work great with all of them.
personally, I prefer BladeTech for OWB, and Vedder kydex for IWB.
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Well, I played with the press base and handle a bit today. I tried it on the bench top, and then on some stacked wood to raise it 3.5" and it was definitely more comfortable for me with it raised. I tried all 3 handle positions from the bench, then on a 2x4, then two 2x4's, then two 2x4's and a 1x2 which brought it up to 3.5". That's what seemed to work best. I am going to order the Inline Fabrication mount. I also plan to put about a 3/4-1" anti fatigue mat on the floor, so I think the 4" Inlin Fab mount will work out well for me.
Nothing like a little trial and error to see what works best.
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Thanks for all the feedback. I'll definitely start by mounting it directly to the counter, and then see which handle position works best. Since it will only load 9mm I don't think I need to worry about needing more torque to work the handle in the short position.
It's odd that Dillon chose not to make the front of the press straight across so it would be easy to align with the front of the bench top. Now I have to eyeball it to try and get it straight.
Maybe in a couple of years if primer prices become reasonable again I may even consider automating it with the Mark 7 autodrive. I think those just sit on the bench and don't get bolted down at all. But that's a long way off.
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2 hours ago, George16 said:
I think the setup will be too high on with the riser considering your bench is already at 37”. Mock it up and see how it works before finalizing your setup.
By the way, do you plan on sitting down or standing while reloading? This is significant in how you mount your machine.
I’m definitely a stand-up reloader.
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The height from floor to the top of the counter is 37". I was thinking of mounting it directly to the bench. I also have a workbench that is 36.5" from floor to countertop and that has an RL550B on the Dillon Strong mount. That height is just right for stand-up use.
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53 minutes ago, ddc said:
How high is your bench? Were you planning on a direct mount or raising it a bit?
Damn, that’s a good question. I was so wrapped up on where I was going to mount it that I never thought to consider if the height was high enough. And I even had the handle in to verify it would clear the front of the counter. I’ll have to measure the height when I get home tonight and also put the handle back in to see if the height will work or if I want to bump it up with the 4” riser plate. Damn, what an idiot I am. Sometimes I get too focused on a tree and don’t see the forest.
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7 hours ago, George16 said:
I mounted mine on the right side of the bench. I did it this way so I can install the MBF on separate mount (1” dia. black pipe towards the back).
Thanks for the pic. Is that post to the left of your press in back for the bullet feeder? I was hoping to mount mine at the left edge of my countertop centering the main part of the press about 13” from the edge. I also have a filing cabinet against the end of the counter. I think it should fit, I may have to assemble a few parts of the press before I bolt it down to test fit the location.
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So I finally got around to unboxing my RL1100 and I’m trying to decide where along my bench to mount it. It looks like just the handle is on the right side and everything else is on the left. I do plan to mount a Mr. Bullet feeder to the case feeder.
so, for those of you manually running an RL1100, which side do you need more room on? I have about a 32” wide area of bench and I don’t know if I should center it or favor it over more to the left or right?
Thanks,
Cuz
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I agree with Edwards30 suggestion that you might as well replace all the springs. It’s cheap enough to do, that it should be an automatic at that number of rounds. Now that I think about it, at 20,000 rounds it’s also probably time for it’s second cleaning as well.
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22 minutes ago, Braxton1 said:
Has there been any change in ammo? In today's "ammo shortage" world, Quality Control seems to have exited stage left. I recently encountered a bunch of 40 ammo that was advertised as the nominal "180 grain at 950 fps" standard. When test-firing a few guns, I noticed the same weak ejection issue as the OP. I knew the ammo wasn't right because I have gotten quite "recoil averse" in my old age and I notice it when shooting 40 and 10mm. Chrono'ing that lot of ammo revealed that it was only going about 750 fps.
Maybe when they got 950 FPS they used a 16” PCC barrel???
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4 hours ago, warpspeed said:
We are our own worst enemy in this.
Yeah, that does about sum it up. Same thing with bullets, but to a lesser degree. I mean, if nobody can get primers, who needs Bullets???
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7 hours ago, Sigarmsp226 said:
Cuz - Honestly it has been years since I have taken time to measure the OAL of any group of unloaded projectiles to determine the variance. You are correct that I used to do this primarily on rifle rounds when I was shooting my precision 308 rifle.... Having read HogRyder and your post I guess it is fair to say that I would not have even taken the time to measure these bullets had this thread not attention having just ordered for the first time from PD....
I appreciate your comments and feedback also and sharing your thoughts.....In review I guess I was quick to jump on this threads band wagon with no real finished round evidence that the bullet variance would be reflected in the loaded round OAL...
I do pay attention to my OAL on my loaded rounds and will report back on how these load out and more importantly - shoot and group....Thanks for the call out suggesting that I re-think my post....I appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts. His thread has helped me realize that one variable may NOT have the same affect on a separate variable....Mark
I definitely want to know how you make out at the range. I used to get obsessive about .05 gr differences in the powder charges of loaded rounds to the point of checking the weight every 5-10 rounds. Man, you want to talk about driving yourself insane. And then I went and loaded it all in mixed range brass thus defeating the whole point of checking the charge weights. Sometimes I’m my own worst enemy. The variance in OAL of my loaded ammo used to drive me nuts too. In the end, I let the group sizes and chronograph decide if a load will work and I worry a lot less. Obviously it has to feed reliably as well. Although, as soon as primers become readily available, I will have a LOT of coated Bullets on hand to experiment with to see if I can get the groups to shrink down a bit. I may be over crimping. But right now I don’t want to “waste” primers to figure it out. I stumbled onto the PD Bullets and have had great results. So, as long as I can continue to get them I will use them exclusively. And I think I will reframe from measuring the OAL of any individual Bullets for now as the may just push my OCD over the edge.
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1 hour ago, Sigarmsp226 said:
Well this thread caught my attention because I received my first order from Precision Delta last week for 2000 pieces of their 124gr JHP so I opened one of the two boxes I received and pulled 25 random bullets from the closed bag.
I will let the pictures below show you the range associated within the 25 rounds I measured. Needless to say I was surprised by this spread. Guess my future orders will not be with PD for this specific bullet or their 124gr FMJ bullet. I would have thought that this specific bullet would have had a tighter manufacturing tolerance than this - but what do I know…..
Thank you Sigarms,
one less person I will have to wrestle with to try and claim the limited amount of bullets available from PD.
do you really think that 0.011” is that big a deal???what other bullets are you using? I have found incredible variances in size and weight among 4 different coated bullet manufacturers. This is handgun ammunition, not precision rifle shooting. Have you loaded up a bunch without regard for OAL variance and shot them?
I just “discovered” PD Bullets for the first time last week and am very glad I did. They group better than any other bullet I’ve tried, but they are also the only jacketed bullet I’ve tried in many years. They were also fairly stable over the chronograph, but I use mixed range brass so I expect some variance.
I would really like to know what other billets you use and what their tolerances are.
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My only complaint is that I don’t have a steady diet of primers to feed it…
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I got a chance to hit the range yesterday to test a quick load of the Precision Delta’s 124gr JHP against my standard Berry’s 124gr RN load and two other brands of coated Bullets. Mind you, I’m not a great shooter, so for me a good group is having all shots at least touching a single white paster at 35 ft. The PD was easily the best group, followed closely by the berry’s. The group size from the coated Bullets was twice the size of the PD groups. It’s very possible I just don’t know how to wring out better accuracy from a coated bullet, and unless I can figure it out, I’ll use the ones I have as practice ammo and stick exclusively to Precision Delta if I can continue to get them.
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Damn, missed the 124gr JHP, if there were any.
ya snooze, ya lose, I guess…