Cuz
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Posts posted by Cuz
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Cuz,
I have a bunch of .40 180 CMJ and JHP from Zero. I'll bring a handfull of each to the RIMLC match Sunday if you can make it.
Steve
Thanks Steve. That'd be great. I plan on being there. Not sure if I'll shoot a .40 or .45 yet. I'll bring both and decide once I'm there.
See you Saturday.
-Cuz
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I'm thinking about switching to Wilson Combat's high performance .45 ammo in my carry gun. Has anyone tried it? Has anyone chrono'd it? I'm wondering how fast the 230gr hornady XTP bullets are going. While I'm on the subject I'd also like to know how fast the 200gr's are moving and whether or not they are +P. I sent Wilson an email but I don't know if they'll give out that info.
Anyone have any thoughts about using it as a defense ammo? Do you think it looks too much like a specialty load? Normally I would stick to straight factory ammo, but this is actually cheaper and since I shoot my carry gun a lot to practice I figure I'd give it some consideration. Comments?
-Cuz
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You can't go wrong with either the CMJ or the JHP.
Great, thanks for the info. Now I've eliminated FMJ and am down to two. Is there any performance difference between the CMJ and the JHP? I mean if they are absolutely positively the exact same then I guess I'll go with the hollow points based soley on the point that if I'm going to have a few thousand bullets at the house I may as well make them JHP in case they are ever needed for some "other" use.
Can someone tell me which one is taller? I might choose the taller one because that will give me more bullet in the case which may result in better bullet grip. that may minimize the chances of the bullet getting pushed back in the case during feeding.
Does either JHP or CMJ tend to feed more reliably? I have a stock Para P16.40 Limited LDA. If one was more reliable than the other I'd like to know. Yes I know I could order some and test, but if I'm going to order I'd like to order at least a case for the price break so I want to make as best a guess as I can.
Thanks again for the info.
-Cuz
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Ok, I've read the posts and done a lot of searching. I'm new to .40 caliber shooting and don't want to shoot any more lead. I've decided (after long hours of reading here) that I will buy a case or two of Montana Gold 180 gr bullets. Can you guys help me determine which one to choose? This is ONLY for recreational shooting and local matches. Nothing else. What is the difference (performance wise) between a JHP, the FMJ or the CMJ bullets. All responses are greatly appreciated. I want to figure this out before I buy 5000 of them.
-Cuz.
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I was looking at new earmuffs and would like to buy electronic muffs.
I would like your opinions on the good ones or the ones you own.
Thanks.
I have a set of Pro-Mag Dimension 1 from Pro Ears. I love them. I almost didn't buy them because they use four N batteries, but I've had them about 3 years and only replaced the batteries once. Plus, they come with a five year warranty. Can't beat that! Highly recommend them.
-Cuz
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Hey Cuz, keep the faith, you'll get there. FWIW, I think you have a good setup now. When I get home tonight I'll take some measurements. I'm running the same die set up that you have. I used to have the EGW U-die but I then went back to the standard die set that you have now.
Take a piece of common brass and measure the outside and the inside diameter. Then resize it and measure both again. I'll do the same tonight. If you have time tonight, call Lee and ask them if your measurements are within tolerences.
After resizing outside diam=.418"
inside diam=.395"
Then I ran the case through the powder station and the inside diam=.397". Which is also the diameter of the expander. My finished rounds are .420" in diameter. The OAL of a finished round is 1.205" and after pushing down on the round to check for setback I had the same measurement and a sore thumb.
Hope something helps.
Thanks for the info. I printed your measurements but won't get to check mine till tomorrow. I'll let you know how I make out.
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I'm using Lee dies in a Dillon 550B press,
165 gr West Coast plated RNFP bullets.
Firearm: Para Ordnance P16.40 LDA.
It seems that the only way I can stop the bullets from receeding .005 into the case during feeding is to crimp down to .415. Is this dangerous? Based on info gathered from this site I'm using an OAL of 1.150.
With a standard crimp of .422 the ammo feeds fine in my Glock M23, but receeds .005 each time it is fed from the magazine into the chamber of my Para. As an experiment I cranked the Lee Factory Crimp Die down about two full turns so the crimped round measures .415 at the case mouth. Then I cycled it into the chamber a few times and the OAL didn't change! This is the first time I've gotten a case to stay the same length during feeding, and that includes factory ammo.
My concern now is if I'm using either of the following loads is it dangerous?
7.3 gr. Power Pistol, or
5.2 gr. Tite-Group
I'm looking for something that comes close to 165 PF based on load book data.
Thanks in advance for any assistance.
-Cuz.
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You will get there. You will know it is right when the bullets won't set back before you crimp them. Try seating a bullet with your new die and pull it out of the press. Push nose of bullet against your bench with themb, see how much if any it sets back. Don't be afraid to push hard. If it doesn't move. Just use the FCD to smooth out the rough spots and you are GOLDEN!
TXAG
Thanks for the info, but I'm afraid it didn't work. I'm using the Lee sizing and crimping die, and the new powder funnel/expander from Dillon. After sizing, I took the expander and was able to slide it right into the case without any force. That tells me that the expander is smaller than whatever the sizing dies are sizing the brass down to. This was true regardless of if I used the Lee or Dillon Sizing die. Then, using varying amount of crimp, I had to crimp all the way down to .415 before the bullets would stop receeding into the case during chambering in the Para. At this rate of testing I'm going to use up all 500 rounds of the 165 gr bullets before I start shooting!!!
I guess my question now is if I should be concerned about crimping down to .415. Is it dangerous?
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I can't find the topic that I posted more than a year ago either and I was the one who posted it. I had my gunsmith turn mine down. My bullets won't set back now even before I crimp them. I really don't "crimp" them, I just take out the bell with the Lee FCD. You could use my name for a search and read up on it. I had all kinds all measurements throughout the whole ordeal. The smaller powder die will definately help. TXAG
Thanks for the input. Actually Stump has a good point. It may be time for a call to the gunsmith. I'll wait til I receive the expander from Dillon to try it out. I ordered a set of 4 Lee dies in 40 caliber from Midway. They came in today, but somehow there was a screwup. The die set had 2 sizing dies and no seating die. I couldn't believe it. Fortunately Midway was very cooperative when I called them. They are sending out a new set and will refund my shipping charges to send these back. I do like dealing with Midway.
Cuz.
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Beware. Their website invites the public to their 3rd Saturday of the Month pin shoots. BUT, if you are capable of shooting five pins with five shots at 50(!)feet, they are going to start dumping on you.
Also, they DO NOT ensure that the just-fired handguns are unloaded and safe before they send the pinsetters downrange. I witnessed a shooter leave an S&W .45 autopistol with its slide locked back over a LOADED magazine on the firing line table as the pin setters went downrange.
Note to self. Stay out of Lawrence, MA shoots. Thanks for the info. Glad I didn't make the 70 mile trek up from Seekonk. I don't have to worry about clearing the pins because I'm not that good. But, I want no part of an unsafe match.
LC.
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This whole topic was well documented somewhere in this forum. I had the same problems with my 40 reloads. I had two separate 40 belling/powder dies for my 550. One measured .398 the other was slightly smaller. I had one turned down to .393. It fixed all my bullet set back problems. I finish all loads with a Lee factory crimp die and have had no problems since! Wooohoooo! TXAG
How did you turn it down to .393? Dillon is sending me one that measures .395 to try. I just did some testing with my Glock 23 and Para 16.40 with Factory loads.
Using either Federal Hydrashocks, or Winchester white box 180 gr rnfp anytime I cycle a round from the mag into the chamber it receeds about .005 each time. That's with the Para. This doesn't happen with the Glock. I tried cycling a round into the Glock 10 times and it always measures the same. I put it in the Para and cycle it once and it sets the bullet back .005.
Is this something I can compensate for by extending the OAL by .005 to compensate? My real concern is SAFETY. If I'm loading recipes from a loading manual that are calculated to give me Major power factors (I don't have a chrono) and the bullet receeds .005 am I creating a dangerous scenario?
As far as this being covered, I spent a week pouring over the various messages and did see lots of talk about it, but I don't recall finding a conclusive solution. I'm not saying there wasn't one, just that I read as much as I could find. I had no idea how much info is here. Plus, it just gets compounded because I always find myself going off on a tangent when I see other subjects that answer other questions I had. Thanks for the input. I also ordered a set of 4 Lee dies. I will use their full length sizing die and the factory crimp die. I guess I'll also use their seating die and just send the Dillon dies back. I've only had them a month so I might as well return them for credit. Man, I never had any issues with .45 or .38 reloads. Hope I get this figured out...
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Cuz,
I don't remember seeing it anywhere else in the thread, but have you tried different bullets.
How many times has your brass been reloaded.
Before throwing in the towel I would try different brass, new if you can find some, and a different brand of bullet.
You could also shoot your reloads in another 40 to see if it is a problem with the gun. My P16s barrel would not let me load past about 1.18 until I got a smith to fix the problem.
Stump,
I was considering the Lee full length sizer because it appears as though most of my brass comes from Glocks. None of my brass is new, but it looks like it's once fired. Funny thing at my range, there's a ton of .45 and .40 shooters that don't bother reloading. There is regularly an abundant supply of what appears to be once fired cases. Unfortunately most of the .40s are from Glocks. I have tried multiple brands including:
Speer (brass and nickle), Winchester, Federal, and two others I've never heard of. I did suggest to the Dillon rep that he send me a few bullets of a different brand but he said that wasn't necessary because all my bullets measured .401 which was right on.
I do have a Glock 23 that I can cycle the rounds through to see if they compress. Duhh, I can't believe I didn't think of trying that. Probably because I bought the Glock on a whim and don't like to shoot it so it's tucked away in the back corner of the safe where I sort of forgot about it. I don't want to give up on the .40, but I am thinking I should send the Dillon dies back and go with Lee since I expect that most of my brass will continue to come from the Glock shooters at my club. I'm waiting for the smaller expander from Dillon to see how that does. In the meantime maybe I'll buy a small quantity of new brass and different bullets to try. Thanks for the input.
-Cuz
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I went through the same thing with my P14 years ago. The bullets, especially hard skinned Montana Gold, were setting back after chambering. I've since just ignored it. I load long anyway, so it's not a safety concern that the bullet sets back .010-.020". I'm still over the published OAL for that load.
One more bit of advice, get +10% mag springs. The added strength will keep the bullets more nose high as the breech face strips them out out of the mag.
Good luck.
Thanks for the input, normally I would ignore the issue. What got me concerned was all the posts I've read here over the past week while trying to decide which powder to use. Ignoring it sounded dangerous. I called Dillon and they had me do a bunch of stuff:
-Measure a bunch of cases after sizing (most all were .395)
-Measure bullet diameter (all were .401)
-Measure expander (measured .397)
They were scratching their heads as to why the case wasn't holding the bullets, but they said they would hand select another expander if they could find one that measured less than .397 and send it to me to try.
The springs in my mags are the stiffer than any of my other guns. I don't think I'd get more than half the rounds in if I increased it.
Right about now I'm thinking of sending back my dillon dies and getting the Lee dies to get the Factory crimp die. I read here somewhere that Lee also made an undersized sizing die that does a full case sizing so I figure'd I'd get that too and then also try to make my expander smaller but I have no clue how to do that.
Everything I've read on this site tends to favor not using Dillons dies for the .40 caliber because the Lee's are a little better but also slower because they are not radiused. Although Dillon said the full length sizing die is not a good thing because it does something to the band at the base of the case.
Man, I've been loading and shooting .45 and .38 for 10 years without a problem. I'm starting to think the .40 caliber is not worth all this effort.
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The expander die on my SDB is .398", this after 100,000 rounds loaded, and post initial polishing done not to decrease the diameter, but to decrease sticking of the die in the case on the ram downstroke. I have no idea what it was originally, and have no basis of comparison to tell you whether the measurement is high, low or the norm for Dillon's dies. But if you are getting almost 100 thousandths more than I am, either we are not measuring the dies the same way or one of the two of us has a screwy (or worn) die.
Kevin C.
Oops, my bad. My expander die is .397, not .497. I mis-typed.
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(Sorry if this is out of sequence - you reposted while I was typing my last post on this thread.)
What I am getting from your posts above, both the original and the followup posts, is that you are finding the same amount of round shortening on repeated cycling of handloads and factory rounds, and that your crimp is normal at the nominal .423".
On reflection, I'm not sure that what you are finding is actually out of the ordinary. Still, it might be worth calling Dillon to ask just what the diameter of the powder die expander should be.
Kevin C.
Thanks for the input. I guess what I'm getting at is that I'm worried about the fact that the bullets compress when I cycle them into my chamber. The bullet receeds from just one cycling. My concern is that before I purchased the .40 caliber dies for my press I spent more than a week pouring thru the posts on this awesome site to read as much as I could. The most resounding topic I've come away with is that the .40 loaded to major is almost a dangerous load and that it's critical that the oal be exact. If my rounds are compressing when they get loaded into the chamber I end up with a "variable" to the loading equation that scares me.
I don't expect that my rounds should be compressing so I'm not sure what to do. I did call Dillon today and they want me to resize a handful of cases and measure the diameter for them, then expand them and do the same. I originally called them to see about replacing the expander funnel but they want me to check some other stuff because they felt it could be my sizing die rather than the expander. I don't have any other factory ammo handy to test it it also compresses.
As for the springs, I have a new 16 lb spring in my gold cup and this is significantly heavier so I'm guessing I have the 18 lb you told me about.
Thanks again for your input.
Larry
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Start @ .423 with your crimp. At that # you are basically taking the bell out of the case mouth. If you are going to use light bullets, I would stick with Titegroup. I have had good results with TG and 165 JHP's out of MY GUN. If you are loading for the Para, I would try 1.175. Alot of shooters if not most load as long as the mag and or gun will allow. Just my 02 cents. Hope it helps
DaG
.423 is what I get coming out of the seating die!
Is the 165 a "light" bullet? I think I'll be shooting a 180 or 185 gr primarily. I made the mistake of buying 500 of the 165 gr so I figure I'd use them to learn how to load the .40 and consider it practice before buying some 180 gr. I just loaded one out to 1.168 and crimped the sucker down tight to .421 and cycled it thru the Para. It dropped to 1.152. I also noticed a pretty good ding in the bulley nose. Any idea what spring weight comes in a Para 16.40 LDA? It's very stiff.
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If you are getting setback then I would bet you are expanding too much. It usually isnt from a lack of crimp. The neck tension should hold the bullet in sufficiently.
I just measured my expanding die. It's .497
If this is the expanding die that comes from Dillon isn't everyone having this problem? Does someone else make an expander that I can drop into the dillon powder measure die?
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If you are getting setback then I would bet you are expanding too much. It usually isnt from a lack of crimp. The neck tension should hold the bullet in sufficiently.
When you say expanding too much are you talking about the bell at the top of the case or the actual expansion die? I just rec'd new .40 dies from Dillon and I remember reading on this forum that Dillon had a problem with expanding dies but that it was fixed. Since I bought my dies from them last month I am hoping I've got a fixed expander. Do you know what the expander diameter should be?
Thanks for the response.
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I'm trying to determine how much crimp to apply to a .40 cal. I'm using 165 gr. RNFP West Coast Copper coated bullet. Seated to 1.120 oal. I thought I had a good crimp but when I cycled it thru my Para P16.40 Limited LDA a couple of times the OAL was 1.095.
As a test I took a new Federal 135 gr Hydrashock from a fresh box and the loaded round measured 1.125. The crimp looked decent so I put it in a mag and cycled it thru twice and it measured 1.096. I cycled it twice more and then it measured 1.058.
I guess I'm wondering if this is normal? If oal is so important in the .40 cal then what's up with these Federal Hydrashock rounds? I know my Para has a stiff spring but I don't know what weight it is since I just bought the gun last month.
While I'm asking questions, can someone tell me how dangerous it is to extend the OAL a bit? When I seat the West Coast 165 gr RNFP to 1.120 as recommended it looks like it's seated past the base and the edge of the case is up where the bullet starts to truncate. Is this normal?
I've been loading .45 and .38 spcl for the past 5 years, but I'm just getting started loading .40s. In fact I'm just trying to get the dies setup in my Dillon 550B and that's what is generating all these questions. I'm having a hard time trying to figure out how to pick a powder but I think I've reduced it down to either Power Pistol or Tightgroup after reading thru lots of posts here.
Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
LC.
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Thanks for the input. I picked up some of the foam type plugs to put under the muffs. They're softer than the plastic kind. I alternate between a .22 and .45 when I shoot to try and try and feel if I'm flinching more with one than the other. My .45 loads are fairly light (200 gr LSWC over 3.9 gr Bullseye) So I don't want to go any lighter. And Flexmoney is right, my trigger finger is not independant of my grip. Not sure how to seperate them.
Am I hurting myself by bringing two guns to the range at a time? I only get to shoot about once a week so I want to get in practice with the .22 and .45 since I enter local matches with both every month.
Thanks again with the suggestions. My only complaint about this forum is everytime I try to look up a topic to get help I find so many interesting tangents that I get spun off in every direction reading so much that before I realize it a couple of hours have passed and I'm deep into reading threads that are very interesting but totally unrelated to what I came to look for. Maybe once I've read all the posts in all the discussion areas then I'll be able to focus
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I don't know about yanking, but lately all my shots have been missing to the right (I'm a lefty). I think it's a flinch problem. It'd be easier if guns were quieter! I'm dumping lots of rounds trying to cure it without luck. Double plugging causes headaches since I can't stand having a plug in my ear under the muffs. The problem I'm having with sight tracking is two-fold. First, no matter how hard I try, I can't stay with the sight after the gun discharges. I don't THINK I'm blinking, but I must be cause I always lose the sight. When I pick it up again it's tracking back down past the starting point so I end up having to lift it back to it's original position. I'm a mess! I need to make practice sessions more efficient rather than just shooting ammo downrange. I feel like I've taken a few steps backwards in the last six months. I hope it turns around soon. Thanks for your input.
LC
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Greetings,
I've been lurking for a while, but this is my first post. I've read the book once, and am going thru it again a little slower but I seem to be stuck. I can't get the sights to track properly. I've over-analyzed and read a lot and know that I have lots to practice, but I'm stuck on something.
What do I do with my trigger finger between the time the shot breaks, and the slide finishes racking? Currently I'm finding myself pressing the trigger and holding it in tight until the gun finishes recoiling and then I let it out slowly to reset the trigger. This isn't working. I know I've got more reading to do here and more practice both dry and live but somehow I got hung up on this one area and can't get past it. Any advice? I'm finding myself sitting on the trigger til the gun settles then releasing it just til it resets and then pulling it again. This process just doesn't seem right, but if I release it completely during recoil I feel like I'm losing control of the gun. I don't seem to be able to do anything consistently with my finger as it relates to the trigger while the sights are tracking up and down. Any advice is appreciated.
Thanks,
LC.
TXAG
Which 180gr. Montana Gold Bullet?
in 10mm/40 Caliber
Posted
Thanks for the info Eric. Reliability is a concern. A handful of jams per 1000 or so rounds I can live with. More than that and I worry. Although I've already had a few jams with my Para P16 that I think I'm attributing to the fact that I'm loading out to 1.135 OAL. Loading the .40 is new to me so I have a lot to work out. Plus I'm still using up the last of my Bullseye powder. Then I plan to switch to Power Pistol after searching thru many posts here. Seems like that and TiteGroup are the favorites if you don't count Vihtavouri. I don't see many places selling it locally. I appreciate your input.
-Cuz.