SinistralRifleman

While not optimal for this sport, it is serviceable and you can make it work if you want to. My time to reload 3 rounds was 7-7.5seconds compared to 5.5-6 for a M2 or 5-5.5 for a 930 JM. I honestly don't practice reloading tube feds much. I think loading could be made easier rounding off some sharp edges on the internals. After SMM3G I'll give it a try at some local matches for fun.

Bringing this thread back from the grave. Kel-Tec sent me one of these to T&E for 90 days and I'm working on a manual of arms video for it. I'm no shotgun reloading expert but I think I have an OK technique down for running this thing. I might carry this as a backup to my Saiga-12 for Trooper at Ironman this year. I have since put some DD fixed sights on it so I can try it in Tac Limited or Tac Scope. I am putting a pistol style rear sight on it, since the rear is far enough from your face that a standard aperature doesn't really work well. If anyone in the Phoenix Metro area is interested in playing with it while I have it, send me an e-mail and we can meet at the range. sinistralrifleman@hotmail.com

Sometimes there aren't enough people shooting in a division to make scores within that division mean anything. A local 3 gun here often only has 3-6 people in Open division. Heavy Metal participation can be even less. Getting 100 points in every stage doesn't really tell me how well I am doing; being able to compare my scores to someone in Tac-Scope that is a much better shooter than I am is sometimes beneficial. Ideally for local matches I like being able to see results by division and overall (with overall points being determined by the fastest on each stage regardless of division).

Your system works for you because of your lower bore offset, lower slug velocity, and different sight information the delta point gives you. The original poster is using a optic and slug combination (aimpoint micro and 1600fps slugs) closer to what I use and have used in the past. I'm currently using an aimpoint ml2 in rs regulate mount. I've used an ultimak mounted aimpoint micro in the past. I dont see an Arredondo mount available for the micro or anything that would mount it lower than the rs regulate or ultimak. The bore offset really makes a difference for effective zeroing range. The rs regulate mount is the best thing going for mounting aimpoints to the Saiga currently.

Most of the Saiga-12 Optic mounts are 2-3" off the bore. Zeroing too close results in a more dramatic difference between point of aim and point of impact. I don't consciously hold differently on close range steel. The shot pattern is spreading about 1/2" to 1" per yard of travel depending on your choke. A point of aim vs point of impact differential within 1-1.5" when the shot pattern itself it 7.5"-15" across is negligible. In the odd event that you do actually fail to put down a steel target it is much easier to deal with both from a recoil management/maintaining sight picture perspective and ammunition management persepctive than missing a slug shot. In the case of a missed slug shot the recoil is more severe and disturbs the sight picture more and generally requires more precise aiming than blasting steel at 10-15 yards. Unless you're reloading with a whole mag full of slugs, it's much harder to make up that extra slug shot in the Saiga. Assuming a 12 gauge one ounce slug at 1560 muzzle velocity with 2" bore offset with a 15 yard zero at 25 yards you are 1.1" high, at 50 yards 3.1" high and at 75 yards 3.7" high, and at 100 yards 2.4" high. Same thing with 50 yard zero 10 yards -1.3", 15 yards -0.9", 20 yards -0.7, 25 yards -0.4, 50 dead on, 75 yards -1", 100 yards -3.8" A 50 yard zero has less deviation between point of aim and point of impact from 0-75 yards and at 100 yards assuming a 4MOA dot, you just hold 1 dot high. None of this is really relevant at many matches where slug targets are closer or so large it doesn't really matter. Accuracy with Slugs at a match like Ironman with smaller targets at farther distances that can be moving is a lot more critical. Using low recoil slugs is great for paper and stationary steel, but if you have to knock something over or rotate a double spinner they suck, the extra 350-400 feet per second makes a difference in these cases. I've used the Poly choke; dialing it up and down to the same position you zeroed on changes POI with slugs as debris builds up. I used the Winchoke adapater one company was offering, and the threads on the Saiga barrel weren't concentric and the chokes were off center. I used the SGM chokes and they destroyed my slug accuracy by shaving a lot of lead of the slugs. These were all used on different guns. I personally think the Saiga is best off with no choke, and if you want one get a new barrel threaded for good chokes or have your gun modified by a reputable smith.

Start with Slugs at 25 yards, then Zero at 50. I haven't ever missed shot targets because I zeroed with slugs at 25 or 50. I have missed slugs becase I tried to accomodate for bore offset too much at close range zeroing for shot. Zeroing the saiga can be frustrating because where the optic starts and where the bore is pointed can be dramatically different, and there aren't any real iron sights to match up with the dot. A laser bore sighter can help a lot to get it on paper.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was. MGM specifically prohibited XM193 at the Ironman due to high velocity damaging steel. I understand the desire for an objective test (magnet) that can be performed when the shooter is on the line. But XM193 proves that doesn't work. We've found a lot of ammo, like Wolf, with a steel jacket to put less wear and tear on rifle steel shot at 50 yards because of the lower velocity.

The only reason to get a pistol AR is to be able to test fire it and function check it while you're waiting for a tax stamp to clear to make it into an Short Barreled Rifle. I currently have a 9mm AR pistol that is waiting for that purpose. A push sling makes these more useable, but it's no substitute for a stock.

I'd have a problem with the lack of rules or changing the rules on the fly. Mandated shooting positions are fine with me as they are the only way to test certain skills without setting up elaborate stages that not all clubs have the time/resources for.

I do not think that was the issue so much as what they felt was the return on the investment of a lot of time and money. I think they just hosted the largest collegiate match ever and really did it up BIG. Of course, that is the target audience rather than a bunch of is who have either already done our time (or are beyond that point . New command, changes in goals and who knows someday? The Army just decided to stop sponsoring NASCAR too ($20 million a year is what I read) because there was essentially no recruiting coming from it. The Fort Benning 3 Gun was a lot of fun and it was cool shooting on a military base, but it makes sense that they don't want to do it if there isn't a pay off of some kind.

I would only recommend the modular cassette type triggers that no not tension against the lower in the CAV-15. The others with set screws and that sort of thing that either limit travel by hitting the inside of the lower or provide tension don't work reliably as plastic flexes.

Only in telestock tubes. Mil-spec vs Commercial in rifle buffer tubes is relative to construction and finish, not dimensions.

For me it doesn't matter what sight system is on the shotgun; bead, ghost rings, rifle sights, or an aimpoint. I shoot flying clays with both eyes open point the shotgun at the target with whatever aiming reference point I have super imposed in my vision and pull the trigger. I'm successful at hitting clays unless I miscalculated where the second one was going to go and I activated 2 pigeon flippers at the same time. I find the most useful practice for 3 gun is having a friend hand throw clays at odd angles and in unexpected directions. YMMV

ACTS in Tucson has allowed cowboy and other non competitive equipment before by cutting the round count in half and doubling the penalties for people in that division. Paper gets one hit, but the score or penalty for that hit is doubled. If its steel requiring one hit, it still gets one hit. For rimfire division we just call hits on falling steel.

Originally the NFA was 18" for rifles and shotguns. The length for rifle barrels was reduced to 16" in the 1960s. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Firearms_Act

Video and top 3 results here: http://sinistralrifleman.com/2012/07/05/2012-independence-day-action-rifle-match/

Well if you thought the CAV-15 were "junk", you'd really hate these. You cannot make a plastic receiver in the same dimensions of a Aluminum one and expect it to hold up. The area where the buffer tube screws in as a fail point on a plastic receiver. Using standard take down pins also creates fail points via the holes for the springs and detents; and that is one reason why CAV-15s used pins with captured springs/detents after 2003.

.308 bolt carriers are longer, but .308 rifles use the same length buffer tubes as .223 guns. Thus you need a shorter buffer for a .308 with a telestock. Slash on AR15.com offers some different buffer weights for .308s.

Looking forward to having a chance to use my SCAR-H in Heavy Limited.

Steel case ammo usually only runs in chrome lined 5.56mm NATO chambers in my experience.

This is a good read. I think I will direct folks here for a good overview. I struggle to explain what my first Ironman experience was like. The best way I have found to describe it is to say Ironman is like a theme park for shooters, with each stage being a different ride... Thanks, I also did a write up with videos of all stages for 2011 that may be useful for people who haven't shot the match before particularly those wanting to do it in Trooper: http://sinistralrifleman.com/2011/06/11/ironman-2011-after-action-report/

Videos and report: http://sinistralrifleman.com/2012/06/15/ironman-3-gun-2012-videos-and-report/

Did anyone use the rope to brake with? It's marginally slower, but much safer if you are going down the slide.

Ironman is the last major 3 gun match that has trooper; it's also been the one where it's the most popular. We ran trooper at the last independence day action rifle match here in AZ. We simplified it so that rather than having a ruck that you can drop, all ammo, accessories, cleaning supplies had to be carried on the shooter on every stage with no resupply.. This is the only way to make it a challenge for lower round count local matches.

At the ACTS match here in Tucson we shoot at rifle steel regularly at ~40 yards to 100 yards. It's one of the few matches that let's shooters use bi-metal jacket ammo. There has been no degradation to the steel; it might actually wear on it less due to lower velocities of Wolf, Tula, etc. XM193 tends to punish steel A LOT worse. MGM put out an advisory years ago about XM193 for this reason, IIRC it may have even been banned from the match for a while.