RH45

I have a old, Ruger Government, that will shoot 1" @ 50 yards with ammo it likes, and is boringly reliable, but, it steers like a tank. I also have a buckmark, with a Fastfire on it. Not as accurate as the Ruger, and I really don't like the design of the magazines. I have 2 different Marvel 1 conversions. Both will shoot under an inch @ 75 yards with ammo they like. One is set up for open, with an OKO dot sight, and the other wears iron sights, but, somewhere around here I have an extra rib, so I can swap it out to open. The biggest issue I've come across in the last 8 years is getting QUALITY rimfire ammo that will feed and fire. I USUALLY use one of my Marvel barrels as a case gauge, but, even if they fit, that doesn't mean they will fire. I went to a steel match with a Ruger 10/22 that was pretty much stock, with some CCI standard ammo that I didn't check because a stock 10/22 usually works 100% with just about anything, but, the ammo was so out of spec that it would hang up in the magazines. I contacted CCI and they said they would take care of me, but, if I remember correctly, they screwed me at about 50%

I started playing in PCC earlier this year, due to physical issues that were giving me problems shooting a pistol. A local shop carries TNW which was under $700 out the door, but what sold me on it was that all you have to do to remove the bbl is to screw out the handgaurd, and slide the bbl out, then, you can push out the pins, like an AR, drop the lower, pull the bolt handle out, and remove the bolt, out the front, like a shotgun. I had NJK Custom thread the bbl, install a comp, drill and tap the mag release & safety, and install recoil reducers in the stock. It took close to 500 rounds to get everything figured out, and has run 100% for the last 5-600 rounds. I have always been a believer in having at least 2 guns for any division, so I bought an MPX carbine, dropped in a Hyperfire 243G trigger, put a Fastfire 3 on it, took it apart and lubed it up, and even though I only put 1-200 rounds through it, the only load I had on hand that it wouldn't run was Zero 147 jhp with 3.1 grains of VV310 behind them. I was out last night with my chrono, and was surprised to find that loads that were 135 pf out of my TNW were sub-minor out of the MPX. The load was PD 115 fmj with 3.9 grains of VV320 with OAL of 1.14" and they were only averaging 1,050fps.Yes, it does shoot softer than my TNW, even though it has mercury recoil reducers in it. I'll find out tomorrow if it will run at a match. I've found that it seems if anything will fail, it will be at a match. Things I've found that I don't like: The stock sucks. My nose is almost touching the charging handle, and is too high, that it's not where I want it to be, on my shoulder. I think I'm going to order the Thorden stock adapter, and maybe start with trying the Magpul stock that is on my Firebird shotgun. The other thing I don't like is the safety. It's shorter than anything I'm used to on my ARs, and don't like the right side safety hitting my hand when I'm disengaging.

I bought a TNW survival rifle at a local gun shop because I really liked that I can unscrew the handguard, and pull the barrel out. I gave it to a machinist, who is a friend of mine, and he drilled and tapped the safety & the magazine release, which is inconveniently located on the left side, in front of the magwell. I also had him thread the barrel, which he made a comp for, and he put at least one mercury, recoil reducer in the stock. I tried a variety of loads through it, from 115 grain-165 grain bullets. In my plastic pistols, loads with 160 grain coated bullets have the least recoil, but, in the carbine, I get more muzzle jump than any other load.The chamber is shorter than any other 9mm I own. I put together a load with 115 hp bullets, with Autocomp behind them, and I know the comp isn't getting much gas, but, I have less muzzle jump than any of my other "production" loads. I happened to have my chronograph with me, the last time I went out, and was shocked to see Winchester White box, 115 fmj at 163 pf. My loads with Autocomp came in about 142pf. I don't have an exact round count, but, I've shot 5 matches with it. I don't know if it's because of the blowback design, or, maybe the loads with Autocomp are dirty, but, it runs perfect for about 100 rounds, then, starts to choke. I have a match this Sunday, and am taking some cleaning supplies along, and going to pull the barrel after about 50 rounds to clean it, and hopefully won't have any issues.

I emailed my pictures to Apex, and the answer I got is that it is wearing in evenly, and it looked good.

I never heard of them before. What powder do you use?

Would you give up what was your most accurate load? So far, mine seems to prefer 124-125 grain JHPs, but, I had to shorten the O.A.L. to 1.12", from 1.14", so I would guess they are running 135-140pf

Another picture

When they first came out with CCP, I bought a mid-sized, M&P .45, and dropped in an Apex trigger kit. With minor loads, it's a LOT softer than 9mm. According to the way I measure it, I SHOULD have 1/16" of wiggle room. I shot an IDPA match last week, and asked if they got new boxes. They said they are getting new spacers. I'll have to see if it fits.

I shot an IDPA match with mine, last week, and when I cleaned it, I'm seeing marks on the bottom, like it's slamming on to the frame rails. I can feel them with my fingernail, and it actually has high spots, on the sides. I don't know if I should smooth it a little with a stone, or, just let it keep wearing in. I'm going to attempt to post some pictures.

My original 5" Pro bbl shot really well at the beginning, with loads it liked, but, after a while (Not sure of round count) I had the same problem. My 25 yard groups that originally were under 2", were about 5". I had a big burr at the front of the barrel hood. I was going to de-burr it, but, decided to send it to S&W. They sent it back, saying nothing was wrong, and nothing was done, but, the burr was gone, and it looked like it was removed by a blind man, using a coarse grinder. I took it to the range, and accuracy wasn't improved, so I sent it back to S&W. They called me and said it looked like somebody had been grinding on the barrel hood, and they were going to replace the barrel with a new one. I couldn't get them to admit that someone down there did the grinding. With the new barrel, accuracy still sucked. I picked up a KKM, and it will do sub 2" groups at 25 yards, but, only with Extreme 115 hp bullets. I then bought an Apex, gunsmith-fit barrel, and had a local guy that had already welded up and re-fitted a Storm lake bbl to his gun, fit it for me. So far, I've only got a couple hundred rounds of various loads through it. With 124-125 grain jhps, it really tries to shoot a 1" group, but, I always seem to get a flier, opening it up to about 2". Extreme 115 hps shoot 2" groups, BBI 160 grain coated bullets shoot 3" groups, the various 147 grain bullets all came in about 4" @ 25 yards. Xtreme 165 grain and Acme 122 grain bullets produced the worst groups. I plan to run more down it, and re-check to see if it settles in, or, gets worse.

If you had either a semi, or, a gunsmith fit barrel fitted to the tightest pistol, then you SHOULD be able to to swap out the lowers. Apparantly, my Pro was the sloppiest, and now, with the gunsmith fit barrel in it, I can no longer put that upper on any of my other lowers.

I never heard of them. I know guys that have Storm Lakes, and they seem to have short chambers, and sometimes fit well, sometimes not. KKM is a good drop in, but, in my pistols, they seem to prefer 115 jhp, or, 160 black bullets. Everything in between is 3-4" groups at 25 yards I had an Apex, gunsmith-fit bbl put in to my 9mm Pro, and with 124-125 jhps, it really tries to shoot an inch at 25 yards, but, there seems to always be a flier. I only have maybe 100 rounds through it so far, and I can see it is already wearing in. I have more loads to try through it. In my initial testing 115 jhp, 147 jhp, and 160 black bullets all seemed to want to shoot 2-3" at 25 yards. The worst was coated 122. I think they were like 4-5" at 25 yards.

Thanks Jim!

I downloaded the new rulebook, and see references to PCC, but, can't find any rules on them. Does anybody have a link to approved mods, and what isn't legal? Thanks!

I just downloaded the "new" rules. The way I read it, for CCP, the box should be 5 3/8" high. My "mid-sized" M&P .45, and Kimber Pro-Carry 2, both measure 5.25 high I am HOPING I read it correctly, and can continue using what I have. The M&P, in .45, loaded to 140pf is MUCH more comfortable to shoot than the Kimber 9mm, or my M&P, compact 9mm loaded to 130pf.

I also have been considering an Armagon, as a "back-up" gun, but, who knows, it may turn in to my primary gun. If I was to buy one, I'd see if I could send the barrel to Tooth & nail to have a comp put on. It is SUPPOSED to be built in the U.S. I love my Firebird, which started life as one of the original MKA 1919s, but, I've found that parts are getting hard to come by already.

I don't know how well it shows up, but, here is a picture of the "scuff" on the barrel. I don't know if others have had this, in the beginning, or, if I need to have something done about it. Thanks! come spring, I'll run 500-1,000 through it and see what happens. I have several different loads I want to try anyway. My experience has been that every bbl has its preferences.

I don't know how well it shows up, but, here is a picture of the "scuff" on the barrel. I don't know if others have had this, in the beginning, or, if I need to have something done about it. Thanks!

If I was happy with 2" groups at 25 yards, my original, stock bbl would do that, as well as my KKM, or any stock Glock I've ever fired. The more accurate the gun is, gives me more room for error, when I pull the trigger

Randy I tried what you said, but, can't get anything to move. It is tight. Although, I do see a little "scuff" mark at the very top of the barrel, by the muzzle. Should I just shoot it, or, maybe polish it? Thanks!

I bought a gunsmith-fit barrel, and had a local guy fit it. He's familiar with M&Ps, and welded up his barrel, and machined it to fit tighter, but, he said the Apex bbl he fitted for me is tighter yet. It will not go in to battery, if you ease the slide forward, but, when shooting, it goes in to battery every time. I went to the range yesterday, and put 50-100 rounds through it, off of sandbags. Even though it is more accurate than any factory barrel I've ever shot, I couldn't shoot a group under an inch. The closest I got, was with Zero, 125 grain, .356 jhps, with VV320 behind them, in once fired brass, with Federal match primers. 3 out of 5 were in a cloverleaf, one went high, opening the group to almost exactly an inch, and another went way over at 9 O'clock, opening the group to about 1 3/4". My eyes aren't what they used to be, and I've found that on some days I just can't seem to shoot good groups with iron sights, like I used to, but, I had my Ruger MK II government along, and shot a sub-inch group with Blazer ammo, and the crappy, stock, Ruger trigger, which is what it always does, if I do my part, so, I'm thinking the fliers weren't me. I'm hoping that after I shoot it more, it will settle in, and do better. I had zero malfunctions. All of the ammo I shot were handloads that I did the "plunk" test to make sure they weren't too long. Maybe I'll try shooting some groups with factory ammo, but, I really don't expect factory ammo to do as well, which is one of the reasons I handload.

I have a bunch of M&Ps, as well as other pistols If you handload, stick with the .40. You can get .40 minor loads to shoot a lot softer than 9mm. The only loads in 9mm that come close to being as soft as .40 is with a 160 grain bullet, but, out of all of the 160s I've tried, I can't quite get the accuracy I'd like. If you don't handload, yes, get a conversion bbl Also, every M&P .40 I've shot, has been more accurate than their counterpart, in 9mm.

I guess I ASSUMED the extreme line was like comparing a Sig 226, with their X series, which is a much more refined pistol. Whereas the Sig 226 is an accurate pistol, every X series I've shot was outstanding.

What is the difference between Stock 2, and Stock 3 Extreme? I shot several Stock 2s at the chrono station, and liked the way they felt. I just wish I would have had a target, behind the chrono at 25, or 50 yards, to see just how accurate they were. Thanks!

I'm not very good at finding stuff on websites. Thanks! Maybe I'll just call them. I knew they were in the middle of moving, and didn't want to bother them.