Jim Norman

For a 3-Gun Match no Rifle target should be less than 4moa. No pistol target should be less than 4".

Limited funds? Go with Tom at MOA and a Stoeger. The guns run very well when he works on them. Mine will cycle 2-3/4 dram 1 ounce loads unsupported. In a couple thousand rounds I've had 2 FTF with slugs, the gun was just about brand new at that time, since then ZERO issues. Do not expect this performance out of the box even with the M3K 3-gun version. It still needs Tom's touch.

Vlad, are you having tube envy? OK, now I agree that IS going too far, but somebody had to jump in and say it.

Leave my mags alone! Occasionally I'll use a PMAG40 or a PMAG30 with Nordic +18 or a Surefire 60. They don't skew the field - mags are cheap. Stop thinking like someone that lives in a nanny state. OK, How about this, limit to 30 rounds in the mag and I don't care how big your mag is. There is a cost and also a difference in the competitiveness. Changing a magazine on a rifle is something that should be a part of the skills needed to compete. I would be against it. as someone else said, if you limit the capacity it becomes a mag changing contest and if you don't it essentially ends the competitiveness of the tube guns. I've been to only one or two matches that required hot-reholstering and also single handed reloads. Both are skill sets everyone SHOULD have, but are very likely skill sets virtually no one does have. I would stay away from these. Other items that I didn't bother to quote. Vlad, A rule about not changing the rules! I like that. Unless there is a safety issue or some new incredible piece of unobtainium gear then leave the rules alone. Time Plus is good, straight time can easily make a match into a one stage wins the match game. If all the stages are well balanced that is fine, but anytime you have one exceptionally long stage where it can be broken by one shooter that halves everyone's time, this system fails. That same shooter may only perform at that level on that one stage. Time Plus-Points is the best way, all stages are worth 100 points, 10 seconds supper go fast and 450 yards, tough, make your hits you need to do both well and everything in between. I would not have an issue with bi-pods provided they stay on the gun. As stated early on, I am against two optics. Two optics on a rifle moves you to Open. Sorry, a 1 x 6 is not an absolute requirement, a decent 1-4 will get you through most matches at less than half the price. Add a decent red dot and you are approaching the 1-6 $ range. and as was stated, a red dot is faster than a back-up iron sight. and your point? Keep in mind that this is a GAME. Games have rules. Sometimes we have rules simply to differentiate between divisions! Sometimes it is becasue if we don't set certain limits the game is broken and people will stop playing. Me, I am going to take my 15 year old rifle and pistol, my new shot gun and an assortment of other gear and head off to a match this weekend. As an OLD GUY, I hope to finish around 33-40%. Anything better and I am ecstatic! Remember it is the Indian, not the Arrow and practice does not make perfect, PERFECT Practice makes perfect!

El G, I would agree to the 8-Round Tube, but not to the multiple optics. You can use a 3-9 and a speed sight. An optic, even unmagnified is a game changer. As to the cost of entry. this is not a cheap hobby. And unless you are shooting at big matches and your skill level is way up, a 1-4 Scope from some of the second tier mfgs is fine. In fact 1-4s aren't that much even from the upper tier mfgs. By the time you buy a decent daylight usable RedDot and a mount and a scope and a scope mount you are pushing the edges of just doing it right anyway. I would like to see things like no drums, no Surefires 50 & 100 round mags in Tac-Optic. They skew the field. 30 round mags in rifle, 140MM mags in HG (170 for SS) in Tac-Optic and Tac-Iron. Reloading is a skill set. Same reason the 8 round tube is fine. Now, there needs to be an understanding there. I shoot a Buck load that is longer than my bird and slug loads. I can get 8 of them in, but that allows for 9 bird. Being bumped to open for that sort of issue is wrong. We'd need to address that. Maybe 8 of the shortest shells you carry?

There are a number of sights that can be attached to the rib on your barrel. I've used them for years on my old 11-87 until I got a rifle sighted barrel. I am currently using a set on my Stoeger. The are attached with small as in very small screws and they are adjustable both for windage and elevation. In some respects I think that for other than slug shots they can be a hindrance. When you shoot flying birds in trap, SC and other you look at the target,the barrel is there and you hit what you look at. Add sights and you start to aim, aiming takes more time than knowing. This is a Shotgun, we are talking about a 20" pattern, not a 0.22" round. That does make a difference! Aim a rifle, Aim a Pistol, Point a Shotgun (except for Slugs)

We do registration on a tablet (lately a iPad but we have also used my samsung) to facilitate the squading we have paper squad sheets on the desk in front of the stats person taking the money and entering the shooters. You pick a squad as you sign up (or you friends pick one for you) the sheets are avaliable to pre squad before we start registration. This seams to work pretty well, the paper squad sheets are SOP from the pre Practiscore days and everyone is familiar with the system. Prior to Practiscore we used as you do, paper squad lists. With last months introduction of Online Squadding, that system provides a utility to printout the squad lists as well as an alphabetical registration list. Prior we used to assign squads at registration, this was at times very stressful;

US820, I agree that shooting 'real' trap, skeet, 5-stand or sporting clays is the way to go and it is not too pricey, well all but Sporting Clays. However if one has a place nearby to shoot, maybe even a backyard, then a decent thrower, the key being a decent thrower, can get you a lot of practice without a lot of driving. Where I am as an example, i can drive to my club in 35-40 minutes and shoot anything I want to for the cost of ammo, targets and gas. Or I can drive at least as far and shoot trap for $5-7 a round on the days that the ranges are open or I pay $42 a round of 100 for sporting clays coupled with a 3 hour round trip. Both options are good. Now if you really want to be a AA top of the game trap shooter, then you pretty much have to go to a place where the speed, angle and distances are precise and you have to pay for the birds and the AA fees and all the rest. But if all you want to do is bust clays and have a good time, then there are far more choices available. Just sayin

Biker, that is 98% exactly what we do. Only difference is that we have people sign up for the match online and import that. We just now started using a new program from one of our members that allows us to squad as well. We are cautiously optimistic that squadding will work, the first run through saved us probably an hour and it certainly saved a lot of aggravation on my part. Time will tell if that was a fluke, .At this point if I were to be told I had to go back to paper and EzWin I think I'd quit as Stats.

Stan, Get an IPAD. Buy an used one. You can register your shooters however you see fit, we do it online, one of our people has a steel scoring program that had an online component that allows for squadding. we import that into PS. We build the stages in PS, we get the updated classifications in PS and we generate the Activity Report and Classifier Reports in PS all on the IPad. We use Nook NSTs to collect the data. We don't use a paper back up, although I am not opposed. Our shooters just don't fill them out and turn them in so we stopped printing them. EzWinScore may be the way to go for a major match especially if you are using the USPSA system for registration and squadding. But for a local match.... I have not opened EzWin in well over a year. We use PS for steel, for USPSA and for Multi-Gun. After 15 plus years of scoring matches THi is the way to go! Will there someday be a better way? Maybe, but until then PS all the way. Thank you

Now that is just wrong. Everyone knows the following things are mandatory; Clean your guns the night before a major match, change all mag springs the night before a major, use a new batch of powder and heads for a major and no testing. Also it is always a good ting to go to the sight in range and screw around with your zero when you only have a couple minutes before the range closes to start the match. THen of course you always want to try the new Mexican or Chinese place for dinner the night before the match.

OK, so once I get to the end of this season I'll ship the gun out for a new sight and maybe a trigger guard relief cut. The Carbon Arms tube is nice, but I have the ones I have and they work. Interesting about the light loads. I was concerned about reliability so I didn't buy a lot, but I've now run over 100 RIO 2-2/4dram 1 ounce loads with zero failures. I've run probably near 1000 WallyWorld WInchesters, 1-1/8 ounce 1200 fps loads again with zero failures. I have had two failures to eject with Fiocchi 7/8 ounce slugs, but that was when the gun was nearly brand new. since then I've shot at least 50 more again with zero issues. Maybe I am lucky? I know I am not that good

The ones on the left!

So, I have a MOA Stoeger 3000. Other than a sight upgrade what am I missing relative to a P3K?

And if he not only shattered the 180, but let one fly and someone was hurt, would we be saying I would have stopped him but I wasn't the RO on that squad? Suppose someone was climbing over the back berm? Would you yell STOP? My understanding is ANYONE can at ANYTIME call an immediate cease fire, in our case that would be 'STOP'. then you explain why and let the RO and the RM deal with it. In this case if they didn't DQ the shooter, then perhaps this needs to go up the chain

So yesterday I got my bird thrower working, finally, don't ask, and ran about 100 Rio 2-2/4 dram 1 ounce #8s with zero issues through my Stoeger. I have several cases of heavy shot, 1-1/4 oz 3-3/4 dram #6 available if there are any takers, not it is not free, but I am reasonable.

An update on my Do-Al thrower. After changing the arm, adding a wobbler, adding an extended magazine, changing a few additional parts and spending a considerable amount of time,today I was able to get it up and running. Ran nearly a full box of clays virtually flawlessly. I would still look at other throwers before buying another Do-All. The newest ones might be better, but do to will the rest. As for heading out to a Trap Range, $5-7 a run of 25 is neither cheap nor expensive. Birds cost about $0.10 each, so $2.50 for the birds and $3.50 to the club average is not bad and that is regulation birds. Sporting Clays is about $40 for 100 birds. You can't duplicate this with one or two throwers so SC is a valid alternate. I think of it this way, I can take my thrower out to the club, toss 100 birds and go home. I don't have to wait in line, of only shoot Thursday at 6PM,Tuesday at 10AM and Sunday at Noon. I can practice when I can get to the range, not a replacement ,but a ice addition.

The first photo in this thread, sans the N/S is essentially what we have done for 15 years. We also attach a weight and a cord tot he door so that once the 'latch' is blown, the door swings fully open reducing the chances of the shooter snagging gear when passing through. We have also used this to active additional targets so that once the door is breached, a mover activates. Usually we will use an out-n-back that disappears so that you have to be quick. Make them stand close to the door, more fun to watch people take three shots to break a 1 x 2! We have a record of 4 shots fired to cut the stick as well as the opposite, one shot. most take two. Jim

Heck no! I am not paying $8 more to shoot a major match! There are limits! This would mean only one glass of halfway decent bourbon with dinner instead of two! There are limits I tell you!

Rucker, Trust us on this. Call Tom at MOA. He can solve your problem. The tube is a tube is a tube. Mark has them at Carbon Arms and Nordic Components also makes them, the issue is not the tube, it is/was the TUBE NUT. That is no longer an issue. Call Tom.

The issue is aparently with the threads. Tom at MOA has a nut that works and works well and proper. (Gee I really hope I said that right!)

From the squad list it appears ( and this is just a guess) that there are 16 squads calculated for and likely 8 stages. Squads 1-8 would likely shoot Sat AM, Sunday PM and shoot 4 stages each day, Squads 9-16 would shoot Sat PM, Sunday AM and again shoot 4 stages each day. Just like the Bushmaster 3-Gun in April. But then again, i am only guessing. And given this it is unlikely that there could be an honest to goodness night time stage. You'd have to run up to 240 people though it in one night! Now that said, USPSA Nationals a number of years back had a Dark House furnished by Surefire (I think) out at PASA Park. A Dark House could accommodate a squad on a regular rotation. Make it a pistol only stage or even shoot the house, then exit into daylight to finish. Hey, in a week or so we ought to have to additional information from the MD and crew. See you all there

I am going to have to try that tonight. Just have to remember the max allowed in gun prior to start rules that may or may not be in effect at the match. Hate to go to open for one extra round!

Night Shooting? OK, I too need/want more information on this match. I've got lights for Rifle and I have a couple good/decent lights I can hold for HG. I don't have one for SG so if I need to rig one up, I'd like to know sooner than later. Gaffers tape is not the best solution the day of the match!

I have just run RIO 2-3/4 Dram 1 ounce in mine and it ran just fine. Also the 7.8 oz Fiocchi Slugs work. Obviously everything heavier seems to work so far as well. Anyone else miss the days when we were supposed to run real loads? 3-3/4 Dr 1-1/4 oz loads of #6 and also 1-1/8 #4?