Jim Norman

Keeping with the Ice Cream scenario, does anyone here eat only one kind? I know I like at the very least half a dozen and my wife, to the detriment of my waistline keeps adding to the list. I could refuse, but it is the same thing as 3Gun, I have to try and then I find out that I like it. True, I like some more better than others. So, do I 'Like' a sage with multiple 500 yard shots? Do I like a stage with only 10 yard shots? Well, I like shooting better than not shooting, so if a match crops up that is close, I'll give it a try. If it has nothing but long shots, I might not put it at the top of my return to list, but if it is well run and there are decent people to shoot with... Now, what I really don't like are matches that make being 25 and a sprinter a prerequisite to a decent finish. a match should be designed so that most people can finish a stage. If you build a match where an inordinate number of people time out on multiple stages, you might want to take a look at what you are trying to accomplish. Also, if you need to be able to run a 12 second 100 yard dash and still hit 500 yard targets in order to not time out, you might want to reconsider your designs. Put the long shots first, toss in a run, pop in a few quick shots and some SG. The stages at the FNH generally fall into this category. Challenging, but doable for virtually every competitor. No matter what you do, the guys at the very top will always be there and the rest will be wherever they normally fall. So, would I shoot a match where the longest shot was 60 yards? Sure, if it is well designed and run. Should all matches be limited to 60 yards? No, nor should they be limited to 100, 2200 or 400. Yes, I do think that 3Gun should think seriously about more than a couple shots over 400 and 500 as a max. Most shooters cannot practice a shot past 200 or 300 without traveling. And unless we are deciding on a whole new match style, I think Designated Marksman matches come to mind here, we want to remember what we are about. This is not Sniper or Long Range Precision Shooting with a couple pistol an shotgun shots. It is a relatively fast paced sport where your heart races and the adrenaline flows. Not to say that all 3Gun matches should look like the shoot-offs at 3GN. Go back and look at the matches like Kyle Lamb or Mike Oberman used to run in NC. There was something for everyone and there was some real physical challenges, but they were possible for even we 60+ guys if you were in reasonable shape. Anyway, enough for now.

Hoping my refund shows up soon.

Interesting, out club only has 1 100 yard, 1 50 yard 2 25 yard and 3 shorter pits. We run some very challenging 3-gun matches. Transtions, Positions, Tight Shots. Usually a few activated targets and a door breeching. We'd love to have 200 or 300 yards, but not where we are. You can have a lot of different styles of match, use what you have. It is all good.

Mark, I agree 100% with the last. The MD's job really doesn't end, as he is the guy that has to handle all the non-actual-shooting stuff so the RM can deal with those issues.

Straight time plus makes for one long race. Don't even bother to publish the stage results, they don't matter! The match is simply the entire event, period, end of story. You screw up one stage, especially a long stage, you have one death jam, you can probably save the cost of the rest of your ammo as you aren't in it any longer, not if you were aiming for the top. Points is a tournament. 10 stages? 10 matches, you add up how you did in each and the most points wins. In points you could arguably still screw up a stage (match) and still finish well. We recently ran a small club 3Gun, Point plus the top 4 were DM, VG, NL, JN Changed ti to straight time and the results were VG, DM, JN, NL. Interesting, I didn't check the rest to see how many others flipped or moved appreciably. Which is better? I think that as has been stated, if all your stages are going to wind up very close in total time straight time is fine, if you have one or two LONG stages that someone can blow away the crowd on, then points make more sense. A couple really long stages and someone saves 20-40 seconds on them can really skew things. THey could even screw up royally on a couple other stages and still win. A near perfect example is sort of USPSA where you have 5 stages that area ll in the 160 point range and one or two really short fast stages like say and El Prez. You can go hero or zero on El Prez and still win if you do well enough on the remaining stages. I know, I've done it several times, I need to have 90% + classifiers so it is let it all hang out, as often as not, I crash and burn at that level, but the rest of the match I grab 1,2, or 3 on a stage and win the division. So, will i shoot a time plus or a Time Plus points match, Yup! Of course, I just try to keep in mind what matters on what COF and where my weaknesses and not so weaknesses are and have fun.

The MD Should be able to shoot with the staff or potentially shoot through during the match. Better for him if he goes with the staff, but either way the MD Should be able to shoot. Now, the RM, that is a different story. He should ONLY shoot on staff days, he is needed on regular match days. Remember, the MD gets the match to starting beep, the RM then takes over until the last shot. Then the MD gets back into the saddle for awards and such.

I can't make this match this year. but I can tell you that it is and has been a really good match over the years. There are a couple technical stages, usually a house stage, maybe one utilizing a vehicle, sometimes in motion, usually two runs in the woods and one or two that are a bit of distance. You go to the range, you shoot and you shoot some 3Gun, and some USPSA/IDPA and you got it nailed down. Now throw on a backpack with a couple litres of water, 200 rounds of rifle 100 or so rounds of pistol, 4-6 extra mags and maybe your lunch. All of a sudden all those positions you mastered getting into and out of aren't so easy! Get into and out of a car with a pack and a rifle, hard enough with just your belt on! If you have the time, GO!

OK, I am not fully informed, and I don't believe anyone really is except Charles and maybe a few close others. The match was canceled essentially for personal reasons on his part, Not Academi, Not Tar-Heel, not the Seal Foundation. In a direct answer Charles indicated he could not go into the details and I for one am not going to press him. He did say he is in the process of cutting and sending refund checks.

Time-Plus_Penalties Convert to points. One gun 100 points, Two guns 200 points, Three guns 300 points. Or 100-125-150 Or 100 per stage, period All of these work and work well. Straight time, depending upon the penalties can be gamed. Toss a shot at a LR steel, take a 5 second penalty, maybe just take and fte, vs actually try to hit, take 3 shots, burn 10 plus seconds to get into postions, mutilpy across several targets and even hitting the target might not make up for just taking a miss. In Time-Plus-Points while there is still an issue, it is not as brutal a difference.

Match Dates: June 11th and 12th Shoot in one day, either Saturday or Sunday. 3rd Weekend. No Conflicts!!!!

WOW! Paper beats Electronics? Really? I've worked as a CRO at several major matches and served as Stats at two clubs since the early days of WinMss. Paper is good for three things. Starting Fires, Wiping your... and on rare occasion a back-up. As for back up, the ONLY times I have ever needed a paper back up, they would have been useless and the shooter's score was simply never entered. everyone ASSUMED that other guy did it and the shooter didn't bother to look. Have you ever sat and tried to decipher the chicken scratch that passes for handwriting from 20-40 different people? add in a little moisture and you got a real mess. Then add the staff hours to enter and cross check 7 stages for 100 shooters and tell me that paper is better. Only better for a Luddite RO. For everyone else electronics are the way to go. Add to the actual scoring benefits, the ability to post continuously and virtually automatically given a connection and there is simply no reason to go to paper. Just for the record, we made paper backups available and no one, not a single person took advantage at the club level. At a major match, I agree that copying the scores to a record sheet is a good idea. Just in case. Thankfully Justin rarely makes an appearance!

Mark, I agree 100%, but most matches don't have them. Ideally any 'stage gu' should be placed at the beginning of the COF to avoid re-shoots due to Range Equipment Failure. But if it is available toss in your Uzi, SAW, M209, AK47 or other interesting bit of hardware. It goes BANG? It is FUN!

It 'Used to be' that there was 3-Gun which was 'Outlaw' and had you using up to three guns on a single stage. USPSA and IPSC originally had 'Multi-Gun' which was a tournament, you shot maybe 2 stages each of Rifle, Pistol and Shotgun, then the scores were aggregated for the win. Then USPSA got into 3-Gun and so did a lot of other organizations. Today we have several sets of nearly similar rules and organizations governing 3-Gun. USPSA< 3 Gun Nation, IMGA (I think I got this one right?), IDPA and a couple others, plus a whole slew of independents that use some or all of the above rules for their matches. IPSC as I understand does not allow for Multi-Gun, although the post above I think seems to indicate that this has or is changing. Remember 3x the guns = 3x the fun!

In calm air 8 or MAYBE 9, if there is wind, 7.5 for trap. 5-Stand, 7.5, same for SC as in both you have much longer shots than in Skeet or even in Trap.

You don't mention how much 3-Gun you'll be shooting or a budget. The Stoeger M3K with MOA's upfit is excellent and under $1000.00 True it is not a Benelli, but you have a lot of $$$ for practice ammo and match fees between them.

One other thing that really helps. We paint one end of all of our target sticks. That end goes in the stand, 'NEVER STAPLE THE PAINTED END OF THE STICK' Sounds corny but once you have tried to unwedge a stick festooned with half a box of staples out of a target stand, you understand. Oh, and on occasion it really doesn't hurt to pull out some of the mass of staples from the sticks. They start to look like a Mongolian war club!

Looks like we'll probably shoot 4-4-2 Friday-Saturday-Sunday. Match is scheduled to end early on Sunday. 20 time slots this way. Remains to be seen if we shoot AM-PM-AM/PM-AM-PM like FNH or if we shoot all day every other slot like Blue Ridge. Either way, I don't really care, I'll be off from work, shooting a match at a fantastic facility with a great group of people, in December. Merry Christmas! That said, I'd really like to see more people squadded up. Nice to know which squad I really want to be on or not be on as it may turn out!

1/2 inch is the minimum. up to 5/8 is probably OK, longer will have the issue of staples not going in fully. anything under 1/2" you are asking for trouble, you definitely will have an issue if you are trying to stale a second target up over the first or if you have an array with overlapping targets. Moving targets remember to start with two targets, cut the head off the base target to start, also think about putting a brace on the sticks at the targets will not hold the sticks straight when the mover reverses direction at the end of its travel. and use staples here like you have stock in Arrow! We use 4 on stationary targets on calm days, 6 on windy days, on a mover you want to use at least 5 per side of the target and definitely 1/2" long staples.

The match is apparently full yet hardly anyone has squadded up so far. Looking forward to a week off. Much driving, but It should be a good time. Bring warm clothes, cool clothes and rain gear. At I think the 5th FB3G we had frost. I know my water hose to the RV froze solid overnight! Had a bit of snow on the way home at least one year somewhere in the hills in western Virginia if I remember correctly.

There are two matches back to back, Blue Ridge the same weekend you already have scheduled off and the following week is the NC Recon. I would like to know the reason for the cancellation. Thankfully so long as my money is returned I have no cost involved. I was driving in and I can just re-figure my work schedule. Others may not be so lucky, airfares, Hotels Car rentals etc. Not all are always fully refundable. Hope everyone gets their investments back.

Not necessarily

So when do we actually find out if we are in?

My assumption is: They charged our cards, they have sent us to a page to chose an as yet undefined squad so we are most likely in the match, however, I'd really like to KNOW so i can make final plans. In my case it just means letting my partners know I won't be here, I don't need airfare or hotels, I do need a Campground and the ONLY CG in the area is known to fill if Ranger School or some other large scale class is graduating. Parents drive in and stay there. The place can fill and if I am not going, I need to winterize as opposed to running the heat!

Any updates? I just checked my personal page, It says that they are creating squads. It asked me to squad, tells me I am in squad, no number, nothing. Since they have charged my card I assume I am in, but I would love a more solid confirmation. I have to calendar the dates really soon.

I have floated this idea just last week at our club, the idea sank! The idea was basically equated to shooting cowboy action. Many of the guys do not have a Garand, quite a number, believe it or not do not have a basic 1911. I thought it would be a hoot! But then again, I am old, crotchety, cantankerous and somewhat different in my thoughts as to what is good and bad in a match. If it were close by and if I was not already booked, I would give it a whirl. While you are at it, two division, US and THEM. US: M1 Garand, 1911, Springfield and Johnson, possibly a Revolver. THEM: Mauser, Luger or Walther, Ariska (Spelling is off I am sure, Japanese Rifle), Nambu or other Japanese pistol. Magazine capacity, what ever was the standard issue, ie 1911 7 rounds of .45 ball. No 'go fast gear' canvas or leather pouches. No optics, unless you have a 'sniper division' then you can use period scopes and mounts. Sounds like fun, but unless you have a group of re-enactors you are unlikely to get much participation and most re-enactors don't shoot, they act!