SteveZ

Welcome to the forums and to W. WA. If you're interested in IPSC/USPSA competiton, check this website out: http://northwestsection.org/

If thats the case, this policy is incredibly demeaning, sexist or both. Either the USPSA is saying we don't believe that women shooters can compete on the same level as the upper percentile of the competitors or at the same level as juniors/seniors/super-seniors/LE and therefore we must recognize them disproportionately or they're saying that we want to reward women shooters above and beyond their competitors because they are female. If I'm a junior and I finish 20th OA at the SSNationals and place 3rd Junior and don't get a slot to the next years Nationals...but a female who finished 115th OA (and places 5th female) does....how am I supposed to feel about that? And as that 115th OA Female, I'm supposed to feel good because I'm being rewarded because of my gender? This policy seems to be a slap in face to female shooters as well as all of the other catagory shooters.

Kudo's to those behind this project. Looking forward to A1C this year.

I agree with your assessment of penalties. Speed shoots (see 1.2.2.3) can be scored VC so it would be legal as a speed shoot....which is probably why the USPSA adopted this new rule....to allow stages like this that technically weren't allowed previously.

Hi Nik...I agree that there are lots of other places for people to get deep into SD/HD discussions and there aren't many places where people can go to discuss improving their skills....but the rhetoricial question is .... improving their skills for what? I guess all I'm saying is that our game has its roots in defensive use of a handgun and for many their competiton handgun is also their SD/HD handgun and because of that, these discussions are going to pop up from time to time....and letting them run their course may not be a bad thing...especially if others can learn from the discussion. Regarding my 1 year experiment with my G19. Someday I may write something up about that but it was very enlightening for me. I learned a lot about my shooting technique primarily because every time I shot the thing, I did so with an completely open mind without trying to evauluate what was happening in the shooting tense. I didn't try to consciously see anything...I was just aware what was happening and then would make little tweaks to my technique and see what worked. I learned that having my strong hand thumb riding close to the frame (as if riding the thumb safety on my STI) caused the gun to torque in my hand during the second shot of a fast pair....the first shot was on...the second shot went to the left because I was putting pressure on the back of the gun and twisting it slightly. At first, I thought it was caused by trigger finger placement but experimentation proved that not to be the cause. Then one day at the range while just shooting, I actually saw the back of the slide slightly twist in my hand doing speed shooting....a ha! I found the symptom of my problem and with a simple shift of my strong hand thumb, corrected the problem. The ONLY way to realize this was to shoot from a 100% awareness point of view....let the subconscious see whats happening and once it did...it let me know what it had found. Its all there right in front of you for you to see....but only if you let your mind see it. Ok....back to your regularily schduled programming....Glock conversion barrels. :-)

Can you penalize someone for being a bad shot? How about this, same deal but the competitors two shots don't hit anything...you'd give them 2 extras shot penalties (but probably no penality for failing to do the reload)...now suppose they fire the two extra rounds....and they hit the first group of targets....two extra shots, two extra hits and again probably no penalty for failing to do the reload. And now final scenerio...they are such a bad shot that they fire the two extra rounds and by chance hit one of the targets in the other array. Two extra shots and now your going to ding them for a procedural for failing to do the reload? If you answer no because they are a poor shot but answer yes because you believe they shot the other array intentionally....how do you justify one penalty over the lack of a penalty in the other?

Duane..I think the point that Bob and the others were trying to make was just a "reminder" that if the gun was used for carry, that it should be converted back to its orginal form in all aspects, including the magazine. However, this brings up a different subject. You know my history in IPSC, I started back in the early 90's when there was the ongoing debate of "gamer vs martial artist". I got involved in IPSC/USPSA from the simple standpoint that I wanted to improve my gun handling skills. I didn't care about competition, I wasn't looking to win. I was using IPSC as a vehicle to learn about myself and improve my skills....and for the record, I wasn't delusional thinking it was going to teach me tactics. I considered myself to fall into the "martial artist" group...that lasted for about 3 years when I decided I wanted to be a competitor. Why am I bringing this up? Over the last few years, there has been an explosion in new handgun owners. In our IPSC101 classes that we put on, a majority of the students come into the game not interested in competition but rather the defensive use of a handgun. I think they look upon it the same way I did when I was getting started; a means for them to improve their gun handling skills. Some of them get hooked, some shoot a couple matches and fade away. But I think the "face" of IPSC and IDPA (which has also seen a large increase in participation) is changing a bit and its more back to the roots of of both games and the cornerstones of which they were founded (I'll refer you to the 8 Principles of Practical shooting mentioned at the front of the USPSA rulebook...which just found its way back in a few years ago). IDPA even has DEFENSIVE as part of its name. Heck...you've even a written article about how you were carrying your G34 and right after an IDPA match, you were approached by some shady character and "little did he know you had just come from a IDPA match and he didn't know what he was up against". What is the underlying reason we all participate in these games? To improve our pistol handling defensive skills should we ever need them. If someone posts a question about shooting with both eyes open and someone happens points out that it would be a good skill to master and can help in defensive situations, are they going to be told "we don't talk about that here"? I guess discussions about which sights are best for competition/defensive use are off the table too? As you know, I just completed my one year experiment in shooting my carry gun (a G19) in production division to get more proficient with what I carry...I shouldn't talk about that either? I don't think you're going to see a post from Bob and the others pointing out the merits of different SD ammo (HST vs GD vs Ranger) but I will say this...BE has evolved over the years (I'll hold my comments whether I think its for the better or worse) I've seen it from the very beginning ( I jumped on board about 2 weeks after this forum was created). Things change over time ( I never thought I'd ever see the day we'd have an entire forum devoted to vendors) and so do the players. Many of the players these days are entering the game from a defensive point of view. Everything old is new again. It maybe something the forum should take into consideration.

John builds great stuff. I think he was one of the first guys to figure out how to build a 9mm Open gun that actually works 100% of the time. John is my "go to" guy when I need work done. He made a non-working Tactical Solutions 2211 conversion work on my gun when TS didn't want to even try.

I do use them to change the felt recoil of the gun...and I've never had one fail or cause the gun to fail...but then I inspect it everytime I clean the gun which is every time I shoot the gun. FWIW, I use CP buffs.

All ranges in the NWS Run as cold ranges. The MD for PB and a number of other shooters frequent this forum. I'd recommend you don't conceal carry at the match.

In terms of competition shooting...there is a lot of it going on in the greater Seattle area: http://northwestsection.org/ http://nwppa-idpa.com/

I think JA's "once upon a time" interpretation that the "loading" process was complete when the round was chambered (which I believe he may have changed his opinion now on) would create more problems given a literal interpretation of some of the current rules in the rule book. So since 10.5.9 is all about loadING, reloadING and unloadING, if we all agree that once the magazine is inserted into the gun...the gun is loaded and were no longer loading....then putting your finger in the trigger guard whether there is a round in the chamber or not....there doesn't seem to be a need for the exemption because.....we're done loading...so nothing in 10.5.9 even applies (unless someone tries to simultaneously lower the hammer on their decockerless gun while inserting the magazine....which would be a neat and complex trick). My personal opinion (if my AD is listening) is to remove the exemption from 10.5.9 and eliminate any future confusion.

During all of these conversations, the subject of loaded vs loading comes into the discussion. I previously had an email discussion with Amidon years ago about the subject of placing your finger in the trigger guard and taking a sight picture ..... with ammo in the gun. Amidon said in that discussion (you can see my email in the link that Skydiver provide) that inserting a magazine into the gun (but not chambering it) is still in the "loading" phase. I specifically asked him if putting your finger in the trigger guard with a mag in the gun but nothing in the chamber would be a DQ...he answered yes. What I didn't ask was what if the shooter chambered a round and put his finger in the trigger guard....would that be a DQ? Now lets go back to my original question...why the exemption for decocking pistols? If putting your finger in the trigger guard of a gun with a round in the chamber (loading process is complete) isn't a DQ, then there would be no need for the exemption in 10.5.9. If putting your finger in the trigger guard is a DQ, then you would need the exemption (otherwise, you couldn't lower the hammer). I don't see the exemption ONLY applying to putting your finger in the trigger guard of a "loaded magazine inserted into the gun but not one in the chamber" because it would be stupid to start a stage with the chamber unloaded. So it must apply to the scenerio where the chamber is loaded and/or unloaded. Amidon already said that putting your finger in the trigger guard of a "loaded magazine inserted into the gun but not one in the chamber" is a DQ....the exemption seems be there to let "non decocker" people lower the hammer (either with one in the chamber or not) without getting DQ.

Appendix A3 Loaded Firearm . . . . . . . .A firearm having a live or dummy round in the chamber or cylinder, or having a live or dummy round in a magazine inserted in the firearm. The gun is loaded by definition as soon as a magazine with ammunition is inserted into the firearm.

At which point, I'll refer back to my original question....what is the true reasoning for the exception for pistols without decocking levers in 10.5.9 which addresses fingers in the trigger guards during loading/reloading/unloading?

I have an email chain from Amidon which says it is....but Amidon != NROI ruling....so its just his opinion.

Then whats the point of the second half of 10.5.9 with the exception for firearms without decockers???? If the rules didn't care if you put your finger in the trigger guard during a sight picture (or any other time)...why bother with the exception to 10.5.9? 10.5.9 Failure to keep the finger outside the trigger guard during loading, reloading, or unloading. Exception: while complying with the “Make Ready” command to lower the hammer of a gun without a decocking lever, or while initially loading a revolver with a spurless hammer.

it can be easily "fixed" by declaring it a speed shoot and requiring an order (pp1,pp2, DT1, DT2...reload...). I'm going to set this up for or next club match...looks like fun. 1.2.2.3 “Speed Shoot”-Courses of fire consisting of one continuous string of fire not exceeding 16 rounds shot on one or more arrays of multiple targets from a single location or view. No more than 8 rounds may be required without a mandatory reload and no more than one mandatory reload may be required in the course of fire. Stage may be scored either Comstock or Virginia Count. See Rule 9.2.3.2.

The Taylors 1892's are made by Chiappa...and you can get them for about $100-$200 less from Legacy Sports.

the 1873 is probably made by Uberti and then imported by any number of companies. 1892's come in various forms. Rossi's were popular. I recently picked up a Chiappa 1892 SRC and love it.

Harbour Freight....I've used it and it works.

I noticed you posted this under the "1911-style" section so I presume you might be thinking of putting one on a 2011 frame? If so, let me relate my story. I ordered one for my STI Edge frame. Upon getting the TacSol 2011 conversion, I tried to install it on my frame....no go. I could just BARELY get the slide on the frame but it sure as hell wasn't going to cycle. I measured the width of the frame...and I measured the width of the rail in the slide. They were the same dimension (maybe .0005 difference). I called TacSol to see if they could offer any assistance. They weren't all that interested in helping out...infact they asked if I might have someone local who could fix it for me. I asked them...what if I can't...they said they'd offer to buy it back. Well it turns out I contacted JPL who does excellent work building new guns. JPL told me that the right side of the frame rail had a runout of about +.0015 and the left side had about +.0035" both measured from the rear of the slide rail. That explained why I could get the conversion on my frame...but couldn't cycle it. So maybe my story is an isolated one..but if it isn't, be prepared to find a LOCAL gunsmith to fix the TacSol upper for you if it doesn't work.

With a Glock 19 (stock internals) and Wolf SRP, I'm getting a consistant 2% failure rate.

There are quite a few apps that will do that; one of which I use called Goodreader which allows you to store many different file types (including pdf) to the filesystem which you can then access at any time. I think the free version allows you to store 5 files....the pay-for version is unlimited.