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My Vanek drop in breaks at 2 pounds using the springs that he provided. Regarding the different trigger pull weights that you might get with the drop-in Vanek (or any other drop-in for that matter) has that disclaimer due to the fact that Glock frame tolerances are inconsistent and that could affect what your trigger pull weight ends up at. If you want to make sure of what trigger pull you are going to get than I would suggest you go with the fitted version.

Vanek is my number one choice for drop in and fitted since all of his triggers have given me excellent results over the years. Sotelos trigger worked rather well for me in a 3gen frame but it would not reset properly in a 2nd and 1st gen frame. I have not had that experience with those frames with either version of the Vanek. Having said all that though I have recently purchased two (I.e. G34 and G35) GlockWORX triggers and have tested it last week in a G35. It worked rather well but I havent tested it thoroughly enough to give it an unconditional recommendation like I do with Vanek.

The differences between the two Vanek triggers is subtle the fitted tends to be a bit smoother and lighter than the Drop-In. I myself prefer the fitted/full version but if you are on a budget or plan on competing in the USPSA Production Division then the drop-in is the way to go. If I was to use a car for comparison it would like comparing the Corvette Coupe to the Z06 both are fine sports cars but 400 vs. 505 horse enough said.

Minor correction to my last posting I believe the connector is from LWD and not Glock.

I own 7 Vanek Triggers (Drop-In and Fitted) but after reading all of the postings on GlockTalk I went ahead and purchased two of the GlockWorx triggers so I can compare and contrast them to the Vanek Triggers that I currently own. What I can tell you so far about the GlockWorx triggers is that they initially advertised a product (Aluminum Trigger) but did not deliver that. Also they did not provide any instructions on how to install the trigger. The triggers that I received were not lubricated where the trigger bar makes contact with the connector and since no instructions were provided it would not have been known by a neophyte. Having said all that they did come nicely packaged (Better than Sotelo's Offering) all of the parts except for the springs seem to be original Glock. I will be going to the range this weekend and plan on firing about 1000 rounds between my G34 and G35 and will report my findings on GT and this forum. BTW, I consider Vanek to be the BenchMark all Glock trigger jobs should be compared against and I have just about owned them all. (I.e. CGR, NHO, DMW, S&J, Sotelo and 25 cent)

I have just been informed by a family member that the CR Speed G20/21 magazine pouches arrived today from South Africa by way of USPS Registered mail. I am looking forward to testing them this weekend once I get back to Cali from Dallas. Thanks again Flex for the info.

Went ahead and ordered three pouches for my G20 lets see how long it takes for them to get here from South Africa.

Flex, I find you comment to be interesting since when I went to the G20 I looked around for USPSA Limited/Open Style magazine pouches at retailers like Speed Shooters International and others and I was informed that there was nothing available from CR Speed for a G20/21. Based on your posting it seems that I was misinformed by those who make a living at selling these items. BTW, I was under the impression that you only competed with a G35 and not a G20...

Must be a recent addition to their product line I will be ordering some tonight.

I have been using the Safariland Pouches for Para on my Limited Rig (G20). For IDPA I am using Comptac (G21).

JoeD, Playing Golf... Actually I have been the last three months going through the motions of buying a new home out in the Thousand Oaks CA area (Should close at the end of the month) . I configured my Limited G20 with the following features Vanek Trigger 1.5 pounds KKM 40S&W-10mm Barrel LWD Extended Magazine release for the G20/21(Tried JP Enterprise bit into my hand) Glock Extended Slide Release Dawson FO Front Sight with Dawson Target Rear NHO Big Mouth Magazine Well Stainless for G20/21 with Brass insert (Was a Prototype I hear they have not been easy to get) Tungsten Guide rod with 13 pound ISMI Spring Ghost Holster CrSpeed Belt Safariland Magazine Pouches for Para Arredondo 140 mm Magazine Extensions/Basepads with Wolf/ISMI Para springs (Prefer Grams basepads for the G20/21 magazines but they were not easy to get several months ago from sources like Speed Shooters or even Grams always out of stock) I also configured a G21 for IDPA CDP with the following features Vanek Trigger 1.5 pounds LWD Extended Magazine release for the G20/21 Glock Extended Slide Release Dawson FO Front Sight with Dawson Target Rear NHO Big Mouth Magazine Well Aluminum for G20/21 (Was a Prototype I hear they have not been easy to get) Stainless Guide rod with 13 pound ISMI Spring Comptac Holster and Magazine pouches

I'm using the Dawson Precision fiber optic front sight with their adjustable rear sight on my G21.

I have the SJC on my SJC Open Major and I can tell you that it’s the sweetest open Glock trigger that I have tried so far. I also have Ralph's kit (Triggerkit.com) which has been relegated to the box of unwanted parts and in my opinion the best drop-in kit available Vanek's. From a drop in kit perspective I prefer Vanek's over Ralph's but the SJC Open trigger is the sweetest I have yet to try in a Glock.

I would say that its a combination of weight and the size of the frames back strap. The G20 was designed from the get go to be used with the 10mm cartridge if you were to compare a G20 and a G21 slide you will notice that the G21 has less metal in the inside front and sides than the G20.

I prefer the G20 over the G35 for Standard/Limited competition. I have found that the G20 has less felt recoil than the G35 and I can use the 40 S&W Long Loaded (+1.190 OAL) which eliminates most of the over pressurization that occurs with a fast burning powders (I.e. N320) if bullet setback were to occur.

I just received my SJC Open Major and I prefer it over my S_I Open guns. John and Steave have definately come up with a better mousetrap.

Here's what the Laser Cast reloading manual has to say about 40 S&W Long Loaded. lasercast0001.pdf

Not a bad load. While I dont use 40Cal/10mm 155 grain bullets I would consider them for a minor load. Another_Minor.pdf

Clay, I posted a question on the NROI section of the USPSA Forum regarding Trigger Pull Weights as it applies to the Production Division proposed rule changes. I'm hoping someone from the BOD will respond and if they do we will then have a definitive answer.

If you are currently using Vanek or Sotelos Drop In Trigger Kits for USPSA Production the only thing that I can see in the proposed rules is that could impact a competitor is that they will need to change the trigger pull weight from +/- TWO POUNDS to a minimum trigger pull of THREE POUNDS aside from that I see nothing. This change seems to be a compromise with IPSC since IPSC requires a FIVE Pound Trigger Pull for the first shot. Whats not clear to me about the USPSA proposed rule change is does the 3 pound rule apply for all shots or is it more like the IPSC rule only for the first shot. USPSA Handgun Rules, January 2008 Edition 54 APPENDIX D4 Production Division 1 Minimum power factor for Major Not applicable 2 Minimum power factor for Minor 125 3 Minimum bullet weight No 4 Minimum bullet caliber / cartridge case length 9mm (0.354”) / 19mm (0.748”) 5 Minimum bullet caliber for Major Not applicable 6 Minimum trigger pull Yes, 3 pounds with hammer in fully down/decocked condition 7 Maximum size Handgun and all magazines (revolvers are exempt) Yes, handgun with empty magazine inserted must fit wholly within a box with internal dimensions of 8 ¾”x6”x1 5/8” (tolerance +1/16”, - 0”) 8 Maximum magazine length See # 7 9 Maximum ammunition capacity Yes, maximum 10 rounds loaded in any magazine after the start signal 10 Max. distance of handgun and mags/speed loaders from inner side of belt Handgun 1 5/8" - Mags 1" 11 Rule 5.2.3.1 applies Yes 12 Restriction on position of holster and other equipment (revolver speedloaders/moon clips are exempt) Yes, see Appendix F3 13 Optical/electronic sights permitted No, notch and post only 14 Compensators permitted No 15 Barrel ports permitted No 16 Slide ports permitted Yes, on factory-original approved models 17 Maximum weight Yes, 2 ounces over weight listed on approved pistol list 18 Handgun specific approval for Division Yes (see Special Conditions below) 19 Holster restrictions Suitable for everyday use. “Race gun” type holster prohibited. Must carry pistol so that the front strap is at or above the top of the belt. May not be manufactured or cut lower than, and must cover the slide up to, ½” below the ejection port (belt slide “Yaqui” type holster exempt). Revolver holsters open no lower than halfway down the cylinder. 20 Authorized modifications (Strictly limited to these items and their stated guidelines) Internal throating and polishing to improve accuracy, reliability and function Sights – trimmed, adjusted, replaced, colored, or fiber-optic. Slide – refinishing. Milling of slide – only as required to insert sights. After-market slides and barrels – provided they are the same length, contour, and caliber as original factory standard. Grips – Checkered or stippled. Internal beveling, addition of grip tape or grip sleeve. Exchange of minor components (springs, safeties, slide stops, guide rods). 21 Specifically prohibited modifications and features Prototype and Single-Action-Only handguns. External modifications or features such as weights or devices to control or reduce recoil (such as, but not limited to, thumb rests or components which could be used as such). Grips - Any added material which changes the factory profile or adds function such as beavertail or thumb rest. External plugs (such as Seattle Slug). No magwell attachments or external flaring of the magwell. The lateral width of the well may not be more than 1/4" wider than the lateral width of the magazine. Special conditions: • Handguns with external hammers must be fully decocked at the start signal. • Unless specifically authorized above, modifications are prohibited. • A handgun may be approved and added to the USPSA Approved Production Handgun List after the NROI Manufacturer’s Declaration form stating that a minimum of 2000 have been manufactured and available to the general public has been submitted and NROI has inspected the handgun for compliance. IPSC Rules Production Division 1 Minimum power factor for Major Not applicable 2 Minimum power factor for Minor 125 3 Minimum bullet weight No 4 Minimum bullet caliber / cartridge case length 9mm (0.354”) / 19mm (0.748”) 5 Minimum bullet caliber for Major Not applicable 6 Minimum trigger pull (see Appendix F2) 2.27 kg (5lbs) for first shot 7 Maximum handgun size Maximum barrel length 127mm (5”) 8 Maximum magazine length Yes, see below. 9 Maximum ammunition capacity No 10 Max. distance of handgun and mags/speed loaders from torso 50mm 11 Rule 5.2.3.1 applies Yes 12 Restriction on position of holster and other equipment Yes, see below. 13 Optical/electronic sights permitted No 14 Compensators, sound and/or flash suppressors permitted No 15 Ports permitted No Special conditions: 16. Only handguns approved and listed on the IPSC website may be used in Production Division. 17. Single-action-only handguns are prohibited. Handguns with external hammers must be fully decocked. First shot attempted must be double action. Competitors in this Division who, after the issuance of the start signal and prior to attempting the first shot, cock the hammer on a handgun which has a loaded chamber, will incur one procedural penalty per occurrence. Note that a procedural penalty will not be assessed in respect of courses of fire where the ready condition requires the competitor to prepare the handgun with an empty chamber. In these cases, the competitor may fire the first shot single action. 18. Neither the handgun, nor any of its attachments, nor any allied equipment (e.g. magazines or other loading devices), can extend forward of the line illustrated in Appendix F3. Any such items a Range Officer deems not to be in compliance must be safely and promptly adjusted, failing which Rule 6.2.5.1 will apply. 19. Original parts and components offered by the OFM as standard equipment, or as an option, for a specific model handgun on the IPSC approved handgun list are permitted, subject to the following: 19.1 Modifications to them, other than minor detailing, are prohibited. Prohibited modifications include changing the original color and/or finish of a handgun, and/or adding stripes or other embellishments. 19.2 Base plates and/or any other devices which provide additional ammunition capacity (e.g. “+2” magazine extensions), are prohibited. 19.3 Sights may be trimmed, adjusted and/or have sight black applied. 20. Aftermarket parts, components and accessories are prohibited, except as follows: 20.1 Aftermarket magazines which match the external dimensions of standard magazines offered by the OFM for the approved handgun are permitted. 20.2 Aftermarket sights of the same type and kind offered by the OFM for the approved handgun are permitted, provided their installation and/or adjustment requires no alteration to the handgun. 20.3 Aftermarket grips which match the profile of the OFM standard for the approved handgun and/or the application of tape on grips is permitted, however, rubber sleeves are prohibited. 21. A competitor who fails to comply with any of the requirements above will be subject to Rule 6.2.5.1

The Drop In Kits art legal for USPSA Production.

Here's one of the loads that you requested in your PM Alank2_Request.pdf

That's bizarre since he is advertising them on his website http://store.novakshandgunneroutlet.com/glock.html Last time I spoke to Tom he informed me Bobby Carver was going to carry them also since Carver was already selling the G17 frame sized Big Mouth. http://bb-enterprise.biz/item157512.ctlg I need to follow up on a project that Tom is working on for me right and in passing I will ask him where he is on manufacturing of the G20/21 magazines wells.

I would agree that GE has the best base pads kits for the G20/21 but they never seem have any in stock on their website. 45BP.pdf

The only other manufacturers for a G20/21 magazine well are Tom Novak of NHO (Stainless or Aluminum with brass or Aluminum Insert) and California Competition Works (Delrina). http://store.novakshandgunneroutlet.com/glock.html http://www.demooner.com/pistols.php I own the large framed magazine wells from Glockmeister, CCW and NHO and prefer the NHO. Spoke to the Dawson folk’s last year regarding them making one for a large frame Glock and at that time they expressed no desire to make them. Regarding the magazine release I would recommend either the JP Enterprise or the Lone Wolf Distributors extended magazine release for large framed Glock’s (Best Value). Sights Dawson Precision. Trigger Ralph Sotelo or Charlie Vanek (Prefered). http://www.vanekcustom.com/index.html