Boats

Lead and Brass should come down, scrap yard selling price of lead had dropped by half. They are not buying metals of any sort unless they can get it cheap. Chinese have about completly stopped buying American scrap. Chinese demand was the main reason for high prices last few years Boats

Thanks for all the advice, on the mechanical part my other post in the tech section may have sorted out what was going wrong. This malfunction was clearly a primer hit by the pin that did not pop. In the match when clearing I klutzed the rack. Dud did not come out and fresh cartridge tried to push in on top of the dud which really screwed things up. My other M&P when new had a extractor problem. The ejector would throw the cartridge out when fired but racking the slide manually the extractor would not let go. That's exactly what happened to this one and the reason I said perhaps the mag ought to be dropped when clearing instead of the normal slap rack bang drill. Anyway will get it straight, the gun is still new to me. Just getting acquainted Boats

I got anxious and took it apart without any test of cartridges. The firing pin was gritty and dry, no lube at all. Squirted some carb cleaner on it and blew the whole thing clean with my air hose. Re-assembled and lubed sparingly with two drops of Mobil 1. It's much smoother now, I don't believe in lube around triggers hammers or firing pins but this one seems to need it. Will try running it lubed for a while to see what happens. In all my years of Goverment model shooting never had to do this. Guess new guns need new tricks. Now that I know it's clean will look for any acculamation of brass or grit around the pin. May be a clue Plan run a couple of hundred rounds through the pistol before our next club match. Thanks all for the good advice. Boats

Am sure S&W would take care of it, But in a lot of years shooting competition have seen most guns fail at some time. I make it a point to know how to fix simple stuff my self. What with expense to drive to matches I need to be able to keep them running. This pistol is new to me but does not look real complicated. Am going to check the primer indent using the same ammo see if the offending gun strikes light then look for the cause. Have not figured this one out yet but most FTFire is ammo, next gummy strike from too much oil around the pin compounded by dirt. Then broken firing pin sapping some of the energy of the hammers fall. Then weak springs. Will post once figured out. I still suspect the ammo is the problem. Boats

DR is a nice guy, experienced, and a real student of the sport. His methods are a result of progression over many years and not being afraid to try new things. On the videos the first video sells his technique. 2nd goes into how. It's as good as I have seen on action pistol shooting. Heavy on grip and index with practical tips .on reloads shooting while moving etc. Nothing radical at all. His shoot with no sights trick is intended to show how important proper grip and index is to shooting, it can overcome lack of sighting equipment. However don't think DR is advocating altering your gun by taking sights off. In my opinion he believes strongly in proper alignment and grip while referring to the pistols sights at distance. In the 2nd Video point shooting is only at extreme close range. I recommend buying both disk before making up your mind on Fistfire. I expect you will be pleased. Boa

Thanks will look into all these problems. I have about 20 rounds left from that box of WW ammo. Think I am going to fire 5 from each of 3 or 4 9mm's and look at the primer indent first. Could be something obvious in the M&PL strike compared to others. Pistol is new with 300-400 rounds or more through it. Don't suspect dirt or too much oil but you never know Will post result once fixed Boats

Agree on the equipment part, I posted it under Production gun tech. After a lot of years with Govt Models know well about anything that can go wrong with 1911's and handloaded ammo. Just shot My much worked on Commander in a 10 stage match using my handoads. With pratice rounds went through 250 rounds with one fail to feed that I cleared in a few seconds. Decied to get a plastic pistol though and pay attention to shooting not gun repairs. This M&P has about 400-500 rounds through it. The FTF was it's first hiccup and I suspect the WW Box ammo is at fault, But got some good tips from the the other post on striker fired pistols and what can go wrong. I also saved the dud rounds and will put them through a BHP to see if it will fire. The M&P might be plastic but it's still just a machine and all machines break sometime. I am still not competly sure clearing one after problems is the same as with a single stack 1911 Boats

Had a couple of FTF's with my new M&P L both times with Winchester White Box 9mm. Friend of mine had the same thing with Blazer in a M&P pro. I also have a M&P 9 C that has never failed to fire. At least 2000 rounds through the compact gun WWBox and handloads. Looking at the dud loads and cases that fired propery does not seem to be much of a primer indentation. My routine is to use Handoads pratice and factory match. Handloads I use Remington small pistol primers. I believe Remington primers are soft, in fact use them in a target rifle that is speed locked and has a weak hammer fall. The Remingtons go off everytime while CCI's will not. Could be why I have not had any problem with handloads in this pistol. Have to shoot a few test loads to compare primer indentation M&P L vs M&P C. Anybody know anything about the hammer fall in M&P's Boats

Had two FTF's last night during the IDPA match. With my 1911's any FTF has always been some sort of feeding problem and have a stardard drill for clearing. This time with a M&P 9 was perplexed Click no bang racked the slide short clicked again and no bang again. I waisted time in getting it back up and running. Problem was ammo related Dud load. However for the future this is what I think I ought to do with FTF or Jam. My idea is do the same thing everytime no mater what the problem may be. Remove the mag look at it as it comes out, confirm cartridges are in the mag propery then stow it. Pull the slide back and look into the chamber, Confirm empty. Put a fresh mag in rack the slide and go back to shooting. Any advice or suggestions appreceated. Once I figure out the best way to go will drill it dry fire. Boats

When I first moved away from 4064 in favor of easier measuring ball powders 748 was what I used. This for the 7mm O8 in Silhouette rifles that are fired a lot. 3000 per year average. It worked fine but finally settled on Varget because you can buy in big jugs and my local dealer stocks it. If you use Ball powders like 748 weighing is not required, measures throw it just fine. Conserding the chance of error weighing measures are probalby better Boats

Tumbling is rarely the powder. Most often bullet to bore fit. Past that improper crimp can cause problems too. Mike the bullets and slug your bore is a good start. Boats

Checked with the timer my IDPA style cover vest is faster than a short jacket I was wearing today at the range. Long vest seems to sweep back without interfering while the short jacket is right were I need to grip the pistol causing some fumbles. Fastest of all is no cover. Boats

S&W has them at full list price plus shipping, delivery in a few days too.

Watch Tiger Woods on TV. He looks at the ball, blinks his eyes a couple of times, and tunes most everything else out. I do see him allowing some outside input, noise ,disturbance or something changes and he will stop and go through his pre swing routine again. Always comes back to the eye blink though. I think the eye blink is his trigger. Worked it into my shooting routines and gives me a clean break between mechanical items and physical thoughts. Lets me get into the metal side of breaking a shot. Boats

I carry a bolt dissaembly tool. Mostly for cleaning. Have had ejectors go bad but you don't have to have a working ejector anyway. If the spring gums up wait till you get home to fix it. You can flick the case out with your finger. Always carry a cleaning rod. I never go to a match without a Chapman gunsmith screwdriver set. take anything apart with one. Loose screws are the most likely cause of trouble with a 700 or any other rifle. Boats

My M&P 9C had the same problem. Called S&W mailed it back and they repaired and returned it to me in a week or so. Looking at it after I think some of the slides finish was on the cut for the extractor, or perhaps the extractor was too thick. Anyway it was re-fitted and now the pistol works fine. It eats everything. Boats

How did you ship it and what did it cost. Boats

Air density makes a difference but not sure it could be measured at Pistol velocity and distance. For example my 7mm08 Silhouette rifle at 2700 fps needs 2 moa more sight at 500 meters Raton NM compared to East Coast sea level. Temperature can be more significant but as has been said it's very specific to particular loads and powders. Only way to know is to test. 22 rimfires cold morning to warm afternoon 50 & 100 yards 2 moa is typical. Boats

Agree on the chambers, I am pretty sure the barrels are forged on a mandrel but chambers cut with a reamer. Reamers wear and one well used compared to a new one there is a difference in Dims. I have two top quality rifle barrels from the same gunsmith. built about 3 years apart. Brass fired in one won't fit in the other without a full re-size. Gunsmith said he had changed reamers. Boats

19852 Agree Have a regular workout program. Might be past 60 but never have been out of shape. Used to compete in several endurance sports. Now it's mostly gym with low impact aerobic and a bit of yoga thrown in. Yoga if you get into it is very well suited for shooting sports, although don't mention it to most people in the class. I see a lot of guys my age that can't shoot good because of condition. Thats a shame because most shooting sports don't take the sort of strength other sports do and you can be sucessful late in life. You do need to be flexable and have some endurance as well as strength. One of the better IDPA shooters in our club is over 75. Not first in matches but top 5 most of the time. He is smooth drops very few shots and outshoots lots of younger faster guys. He told me he shoots for mass and sees the target fuzzy. Plus his grip and positon are absolutly repeatable. Sit some time and go to school on those guys. Boats

Duane That's something to think about. I am a novice action pistol shooter so temper these times. Short range good draw and good hit is 2 sec mim 2.5 max. On the barricade it's 3 or 4 sec. No doubt the delay is in acquiring eye index on the target plus more care in aim with the longer distance, That time could be cut for sure. One thing I do is index my eye on the barricade were I expect the target to be even though I can't see it. That from peaking around before giving the SO the OK Off topic some but I shoot a lot of Rifle competition Scope Sights and Irons with adjustable Apertures front and rear, Blinders on my off eye side, All of this is to compensate for over 60 year old vision. Point is for years I shot matches OK on good eyesight and lately have found ways to compensate for age. Now I don't have it and not many ways to improve a stock handguns sights. I see the long targets ok but not precisely. However good grip position and no wasted time moving I think I can shoot this game. Thanks for the help Boats

I have heard the Pro has tighter tolerances. Have a M&P 9 compact and comparing it to my new M&P 9L can see some difference in the chambers. It's hard to measure small differences but the L cartridges slide in with no play, same cartridge in the 9C there is some wiggle. Same with with my buddies 9 Pro it seems tighter. However trying to measure the difference with a dial caliper I can't see any variation. I do know the 9L is more sensitive to ammo than the compact. Is the L different from the Pro ? who knows probably more difference individual gun to gun than between models. Boats

RevChuck Now that I have worked out left side of the barracade am going to see if I can break down the right side. I think while changing mags it's better to re-index my feet and go to the right side. Will put it on the clock to see if any time is lost while changing and moving feet at the same time. As a strict rule when changing mags I bring my pistol with the fresh magazine back to mid chest re check my grip Index under my dominant eye and roll out for the next string of shots. If I don't the first shot off a fresh mag is not in group. Could just as well re-set feet at the same time. Will see Boats

One more spring question. On Wolf's site they don't make any distinction between the std M&P and 5 inch slide. Since the 5 inch's rod is recessed guess it's the same spring ? Also how does the spring change. Just back out the nut on the end of the guide rod ? Boats

Comp Tac is back and running after the Hurricane. They made a holster for my M&P 5 inch in a week phone call to my mailbox. Holster is perfect for the pistol. Great guys to deal with. Boats