banjobart

So we can shoot a revolver in Production now? The "must fit in the box" rule is gone from the new rule book? However, every revolver shooter carries their ammo in front of their body, this is not allowed in Production.

I think that my Para LDA in 40 S&W makes weight.

So I don't have to stay home and mow the lawn.

The solution is to never specify Tac-sequence in a stage procedure. When caught in the open with multiple targets at our club we specify engaging threats while moving to cover. I think that shootng on the move is a much better tactic to survive a gunfight then standing there in the open and trying to fight your instincts to doubletap the threats.

Sam performed an IDPA legal reload (with retention or from slidelock) and thus should not have been dinged with a procedural. He did in fact perform a slide lock reload. He was not required to perform a retention reload. He was penalized enough spending precious seconds getting out a second mag to reload. To avoid a penalty are we to fish around in the grass for the live round we may eject in order to clear a jam? In real life are we to ask the bad guys for a time out while we find something we dropped? What about those times the gun malfunctions and the slide locks back with a round still in the mag. Are we to be dinged for letting a live round hit the ground, although we performed a slide lock reload? The club where this occurred (Tri-County in Saline, MI) is notorious for making up rules and giving unwarranted procedurals. I went to one match there. The verbal walk-throughs were confusing and contradictory so we read the written stage procedure posted at each stage. We did what it said to do. I got a procedural for not shooting targets in a particular order. I pointed to the written stage decsription taped to the table right in front of me. It said "engage targets in any order". My penalty stood and made it into the match results. The funny thing was, on the last stage the only guy to get a procedural was also the only guy who shot the stage according to the written procedure. There is not a "no ammo on the ground" rule in the LGB. The problem here is not gaming but rule fabrication, the biggest detriment to the fine sport of IDPA.

I just waded through this entire morass...my question is the same as several others; WHERE THE HELL IS THE KNEEPAD RULE? I just read the rule book five more times (readings 55-60) and cannot find it anywhere! Please state the page and pargraph number. Thank you.

Against my better judgement I will comment further. Last summer I hosted the 2004 Michigan IDPA State Championship. I wanted it to be a fun, fair IDPA competition for all to enjoy. It was. I read the rule book five more times before match day (readings #45-50 for me). I knew that the airgunning issue would rear it's ugly head at some point during the match. I decided to take this tact and announced this at the shooters meeting: There is no rule against airgunning in the rule book. I cannot assume that everyone here today has called IDPA HQ and been told verbally that airgunning is not allowed. So this is what we will do. During the squad two minute walk through after the stage procedure has been read, you may airgun until your index finger falls off. However, after the two minute squad walk through you cannot airgun as that would constitute an illegal "individual walkthrough". Of course no "sight pistures" are allowed as clearly defined by the rule book as requiring a gun in the hands. I was proud of my compromise but here I learn that some would disagree strongly with this decision. Let me explain my reasoning. I think it's not a rule until it appears in writing for all members to see and study in the written rule book. This is because I called IDPA HQ in the early planning stages of presenting the state match to find out at what age one becomes a Senior. I was told age 55. Now the rule book states that I must award top Senior, LE and Lady so this was important. In the following months I had to order the award plaques. 55 just did not sound correct. I called IDPA HQ again and was told age 50 constituted a Senior. I told Sandra that this contradicted what she told me three months earlier and I would like a written ruling. She said she was reading off the National Championship registration form. Good enough. I checked the form and sure enough, there it was. This age was not in the rule book anywehere. So this proves that verbal rulings contradict themselves and I now pay no creedence to them. Further onto the Ken's corner column in Tactical Journal. Last month Ken said it is against the rules to airgun although airgunning is not mentioned in the rule book. However, last year in his column he stated that athletic cleats are allowed because there are not mentioned as being illegal in the rule book. So last year rules had to be in the rule book but this year they do not? I am confused. I also consider that Ken has resigned from the IDPA Board of Directors and his current opinions are just that, unofficial personal statements, carrying no more weight than my personal opinions. R Mills, please demonstrate the error of my ways and if you convince me I am an IPSC gamer for my opinions I will burn my SO and SOI cards, never to venture onto the IDPA range again and pollute the pure sport of IDPA. What IDPA shooters are pleading for here is a new rule book that puts unwritten rules into writing. We are not pleading for a rule book that allows IPSC gamers to win the match against the strictly tactical types. No other sport tolerates such ambiguity as IDPA. Can you imagine trying to officiate the Super Bowl with the mismash of written, online, verbal and telephone rules that IDPA uses now? It would not work and it is not working very well in IDPA right now.

There is not a definition or mention of airgunning in the IDPA rule book. However, there is a very clear and concise definition of "sight picture", of which airgunning is not. I have been yelled at for pointing my finger at a target during pasting to answer another shooter's question because he missed the walk-through. The SO chastised me for "airgunning". I was suprised that he thought he could read my mind. At that moment my finger was an imaginary laser pointer, not a gun. If a shooter is walking around the course of fire during pasting and pointing his finger at each target while whispering bang, bang, bang they will get a procedural penalty for performing an "individual walk-thourgh". The fact that the shooter was airgunning is incidental to the violation. Of interest to all is that a phone call to IDPA HQ will tell you that airguinning is not allowed in IDPA. So we have imaginary rules to disallow imaginary guns.

I think that you see fewer pepper poppers because the sport is aging as a whole and a higher percentage of match volunteers and workers have back injuries. I sure as hell do not haul pepper poppers anymore and use US poppers.

It was my understanding the the border around a USPSA target allows only one target or the other to receive a scoring hit when targets are placed edge to edge; not both targets. In other words; the border is slightly wider than one half the diameter of a .45 caliber hit.

At my matches I specify during the shooter's meeting that a concealment garment is required for the duration of the match. We put it on when we get out of the car then take it off when we leave. No matter how hot it gets. One can certainly choose to employ an IWB holster and what ever garment it takes, but most choose a belt holster and a vest or unbuttoned shirt to conceal.

Just a founder? B. W. is the owner of IDPA, a private for-profit coproration.

At the Michigan State IDPA Championship last month we gave one plaque for High LE (duty or street gear) High Lady and High Senior (50 or over) for total of three special category plaques as per the rule book. We also gave a plaque to the top 33% (down to fifth place) in each division and class.

I heard that he was DQ'ed more than an hour after the match was completed. How long after a match is completed can someone be DQ'ed in IDPA for a minor equipment violation (maybe it was not even a violation). Isn't it up to the SO's to catch minor equipment violations while running a shooter and request a correction before a DQ is levied? Some matches also have an equipment check before the shooting starts.

In my case a similar thing happened. I thought that the shotgun match would be a minor part of the match (only 40 out of 348 rounds) and hardly touched a shotgun for almost a year before the match. Now I know better, I will practice it no matter how few shots the shotgun match requires. Rhino; all the shotgun shots were birdshot at 10 yards.

My observation was just that a half day spent shooting 40 rounds out of a shotgun carries equal weight in the aggregate with this scoring system as a full day spent firing 174 rounds out of a pistol. Maybe total match points earned would be a more accurate reflection of shooting skill in the aggregate. I will take it up with my Area Director and USPSA President, I understand that this is not the appropriate place to discuss this issue. Once again, thanks to all for such an excellent match in all respects.

I find it interesting that with this aggregate scoring system, each shot fired out of a shotgun had more than four times the value of each shot fired out of a pistol and more than three times the value of each shot fired out of a rifle. A shooter could earn more match points than another shooter but place behind the other shooter in the aggregate. Thanks for the top notch excellent match. The staff worked very hard in the heat.

It wasn't me this time, I was 600 miles away in Copper Harbor!

The former "Itlian" stallion? Write 500 times "Italian". You spel like I do

Because some one said so. That some one just happens to be the owner of IDPA, which is a privately owned corporation. Bear in mind that a 4" revolver is the same length overall as a 5" 1911. The revolver chamber is in the revolver cylinder. The 1911 chamber is in the barrel. So, the math comes out= equal; 4" revolver = 5" 1911 (when comparing barrel plus chamber against barrel plus chamber). A 5" revolver is the length of a long-slide 6" 1911. It is ironic that the overall best IDPA shooter in Michigan (the only IDPA shooter in the state who is not a gamer) carries a 5" 625 on a daily basis, concealed. He is a good sized fellow, but not much over the average.

If I could change only one USPSA rule, it would be to score the 40 or 45 major in Production division. There is no good reason not to in the USA. The 40 is as popular as the 9mm. The 45 is still hugely popular, too. Americans like big everything; big bikes, big trucks, big houses, big tools, big steaks and big calibers. I hate making special wimp ammo for my 40 Production gun just to keep up with the hot shots and their downloaded 9mm ammo in their long slide guns. This "Minor only scoring" rule just turned Production into another equipment race and reloading contest, no different than Limited or L-10. You guys are kidding yourselves in regards to the effect of this rule in the USA. IPSC can keep their rule. I do not care as I shoot USPSA.

Great idea! (Since many RO's cannot remember three simple commands before firing commences and three simple commands after firing ceases.) Outcome-based education for USPSA RO's. Great idea!!! Believe it or not, I am serious about my comments. Too many times I have been waiting in the box or starting position for the RO to get ready. Then he comes over to me and says "Are you ready?" I say, "Please do not give me the commands out of sequence". He says "Can't I have a conversation with the shooter?". I apoloigse for being so anal and make another enemy. Just another day on the range.

Scan, I keep a rubber hammer close at hand at my club. If those bastards try that shit on me, I just give 'em a swift whack on the forehead. You gotta put the fear of God in the shooters. Take control of the range. You will never make any friends as MD, so give 'em Hell, Harry, you have nothing to lose. Seriously, what I do is look them straight in the eye intensely when they argue their point and try to squirm out of a procedural they know they earned. I listen patiently and once they are out of wind I say; "Don't be that way! One procedural! Clear the range! Next shooter!" He (of course, I do not know of whom you speak) tried that crap on me once, and I let it slide as I was in "fellow shooter" role at the moment. I did privately notify him before my next match that there are only two legal reloads in IDPA ; 1) Slide-lock and 2) Retention. FROM BEHIND COVER. It is as simpe as that!!! If it ain't one of them , then it's procedural! Bart, out.

I have never seen the shooting of extra classifers hold up a match. And I have seen a lot of re-shooting. The classifier stage usually goes twice as fast and the other stages in a match. The average classifier is 12 rounds, the average field course or speed shoot is 24 rounds. At the club where this discussion originated, (I have shot 50 matches there in the last five years) the classifier is usually shot on range 1. We can hear the shooting at range 2 next door. So, after everyone has shot the classifier once we ask "anyone want to reshoot?" After those re-shoots we ask "any one want to re-shoot again?" Once the shooting stops on range 2 we head directly over there. We would much rather stay in the shade at range 1 rather than fry in the heat waiting our turn at range 2 while at the average match.

I have been shooting at this club for five years and the statement by Barrettone that this club has a policy against re-shooting classifiers is news to me. We have been re-shooting for at least the five years I have been around, as allowed by USPSA rules. This is not the first time rules have been made up on the spot at this club. This club is trying to put behind it a reputation for making up rules and regain the respect of surrounding clubs. This will never happen as long as the erroneous rule-making continues. Bart