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TravisNC

Moving Uprange Before Completing Magazine Change

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Posted (edited)

In dry fire last night I tested completing the magazine change before leaving position to move uprange vs. dropping the mag, leaving position while grabbing a fresh mag and seating the magazine once I'm in position and facing down range.  The second way was more comfortable and faster.

 

How do the pros do it?

 

https://instagram.com/p/BUNygFyAOjS/

Edited by TravisNC

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It is faster to move and drop mag and reload

IMVHO

Mike

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Always more efficient to reload on the move in uspsa. When you're not firing and scoring points you are losing precious tenths of seconds

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

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1 minute ago, Rnlinebacker said:

Always more efficient to reload on the move in uspsa. When you're not firing and scoring points you are losing precious tenths of seconds

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 

How would you move uprange while reloading and avoid 180?

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i'm not a pro, just an improving A, but my testing has shown the same. if i have to move directly uprange several yards, it is fastest to turn and go while dropping the empty magazine, grabbing a fresh one, and keeping the gun pointed down range. once you get to where you are going, you still have to turn yourself around, and a coordinated person should be able to insert the new mag during this process without losing any time.

 

it's a pretty rare situation in a match, but one of those things that's nice to know about and have practiced a bit, so you are confident you are doing it the fastest way you safely can.

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Posted (edited)

Testing both extensively is the only way you will know what is best for you.

 

I am in the apparent minority being faster reloading at the start of the movement rather than the end of it.

Edited by Jake Di Vita

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42 minutes ago, Jake Di Vita said:

I am in the apparent minority being faster reloading at the start of the movement rather than the end of it.

 

even when having to move directly uprange? when moving other directions you can pretty much reload as you step off, especially if you are fast at reloads, so you're not really losing any time, but it seems like if you have to move uprange, you can't do much to get that movement started until the mag is seated.

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i'm a reload at the very beginning of movement, even to an up range translation as well. (Just a mid pack Production master at the Area level)

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Read or reread my article in the uspsa magazine entitled "The Riddle of Speed".

 

Feelings are worthless. Time on the clock is king. Repeatable and reliable data with a reference point comes from using a timer.

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19 minutes ago, rowdyb said:

Read or reread my article in the uspsa magazine entitled "The Riddle of Speed".

 

Feelings are worthless. Time on the clock is king. Repeatable and reliable data with a reference point comes from using a timer.

My timer indicated that moving before finalizing the mag change is faster in my case.  

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Right on! Real data beats feelings every time.

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Once of the worst set ups for moving back up range and doing a reload. A prop manipulation at the start, moving to the left (for a rh shooter), a solid wall to clear and not much distance to do it in. Stage 3, last year's Production nationals. I think a majority of people did it the same way.

 

http://liveshots.net/livelinks_2016usnatsp/3Ben Stoeger.mp4?width=640&height=360

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Posted (edited)

Start at 1:49

 

 

If I am moving uprange and left, as depicted in the video, I am faster to run first and then load into position.

 

If I am moving uprange and right, I am faster to load before moving or loading on the move.

Edited by wtturn

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First stage and then at 1:37 JJ is in slow back pedal while moving up range and then when finishes reload he can the turn and burn

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48 minutes ago, rowdyb said:

Once of the worst set ups for moving back up range and doing a reload. A prop manipulation at the start, moving to the left (for a rh shooter), a solid wall to clear and not much distance to do it in. Stage 3, last year's Production nationals. I think a majority of people did it the same way.

 

http://liveshots.net/livelinks_2016usnatsp/3Ben Stoeger.mp4?width=640&height=360

So the theory behind that stage plan is that when it's such a short distance to travel is OK for a studder step to keep the pistol down range while reloading and moving? 

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Posted (edited)

I think the theory broadly is, get moving as soon as possible after shooting in one position and arrive at the next position completely ready to shoot. I guess try to think more blending of actions than of them as discreet parts?

 

As like in the JJ video above, be moving and reloading, finish soon and haul to the next place, arrive there ready to shoot. The muzzle, your head, your feet and your hands can all be moving in different directions when you're moving and all of them moving at the same time.

 

Describe what you would prefer to do in the video I linked?

Edited by rowdyb

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5 minutes ago, rowdyb said:

I think the theory broadly is, get moving as soon as possible after shooting in one position and arrive at the next position completely ready to shoot. I guess try to think more blending of actions than of them as discreet parts?

 

As like in the JJ video above, be moving and reloading, finish soon and haul to the next place, arrive there ready to shoot. The muzzle, your head, your feet and your hands can all be moving in different directions when you're moving and all of them moving at the same time.

 

Describe what you would prefer to do in the video I linked?

The movement seemed slow.  I would be interested to see the difference in time if the magazine wasn't inserted until the next target array was acquired and the time moving was just spent moving as quickly as possible.  

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So like Tyler does at 1:48 of his video, he runs up range with the mag in his hand and finishes when he arrives. That's what the OP likes to do?

 

On the other hand I do it more like JJ where I do it in one or two steps as I turn and begin to move uprange and have the reload done in those one to two steps and then haul to the next shooting position, arrive there ready to shoot, reload having been done at the very beginning. In Tyler's video I'd be done with my reload within two steps of leaving that table.

 

Full disclosure, I think Tyler has beaten me every match we've been to.

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, TravisNC said:

The movement seemed slow. 

Perception versus reality. The key is he is doing two things at once and arrives at the next shooting position with as little dead time as possible.

 

You asked how the pros do it, and I answered with an example. The JJ video is basically the same thing Stoeger is doing. Front loading the reload in the process, hauling and then arriving ready to shoot. When I have been on the super squad and shot with them they all seem loathe to arrive at a shooting position and not be ready to shoot.

Edited by rowdyb

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12 minutes ago, SlvrDragon50 said:

Man I would never think of turning my gun upside down to run full speed backwards!

"Shooting is so unnatural, if you start doing what’s comfortable, you’re going to create a lot of bad habits” - Chris Tilley 

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Posted (edited)

Personally I find turning toward the gun a really easy position to pound the reload out at the beginning. For example, a right handed shooter turning to look over his right shoulder, feeding the gun which hasn't really moved yet. He then proceeds to run from the forward position to the right rear corner of the stage and shoot.

 

That's pretty natural.

 

When turning AWAY from the gun I'm more inclined to drop & draw... then run hard and insert as I turn back downrange and settle into position to shoot.

 

That's the "this is comfortable and this is consistently safe from a DQ for violating 180" side of me talking. I haven't tried both on the timer.

 

Edited by MemphisMechanic

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5 hours ago, rowdyb said:

So like Tyler does at 1:48 of his video, he runs up range with the mag in his hand and finishes when he arrives. That's what the OP likes to do?

 

On the other hand I do it more like JJ where I do it in one or two steps as I turn and begin to move uprange and have the reload done in those one to two steps and then haul to the next shooting position, arrive there ready to shoot, reload having been done at the very beginning. In Tyler's video I'd be done with my reload within two steps of leaving that table.

 

Full disclosure, I think Tyler has beaten me every match we've been to.

 

to be fair, they are different situations, from what I saw. If you are only moving a couple steps, it makes sense to just back up while reloading because the reload is what you will be waiting on to get back to shooting. if you have to go 8-10 yards, it starts to make more sense to turn and run fast because the movement is what you will be waiting on.

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5 hours ago, rowdyb said:

You asked how the pros do it, and I answered with an example. The JJ video is basically the same thing Stoeger is doing. Front loading the reload in the process, hauling and then arriving ready to shoot. When I have been on the super squad and shot with them they all seem loathe to arrive at a shooting position and not be ready to shoot.

oddly enough, you can find numerous vids where ben drops the mag and does the reload when he gets around to it, but well before the next position. the greater the movement, the more time you have to deal with it. shorter movement means focus on the reload so you don't waste time coming into a position not ready to shoot.

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7 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

 

to be fair, they are different situations, from what I saw. If you are only moving a couple steps, it makes sense to just back up while reloading because the reload is what you will be waiting on to get back to shooting. if you have to go 8-10 yards, it starts to make more sense to turn and run fast because the movement is what you will be waiting on.

 

Yep.

 

Distance is a factor, so are the angles of movement.

 

Best thing for one to do is work every angle, every direction, with varying distance in training so that when you come across it at the match you'll be able to know immediately what technique will yield the best results.

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