Coming To An Array

[ParaJoe]

I've had a couple of situations here recently where I'm just not sure of which targets to shoot first. For instance, coming into a shooting position or box from a run, and there's 4 or 5 targets at various distances, 3-15 yards. As I'm coming in, I get the gun up and in both hands, I'm just not sure which targets to shoot first, the close ones or the far ones. Now I know various circumstances will apply as to how far they vary from left to right, but is there some sort of general rule. It seems to me that getting the closer ones as I'm settling into position immediatly after getting into the box would be faster and I can already be slowed down enough to shoot the far ones. Any ideas or ways to go by here?

JOe

[Jake Di Vita]

As a general rule I usually shoot the easy shots coming into a position.

There are always exceptions though.

[Flexmoney]

Watching the very top shooters...if there is any way possible, they will take the easy/close target when coming into a position. (I call those targets "ducks".)

I don't know if that is right or wrong for everybody, but those same people are always at the top of the score sheet.

[Sharyn]

Something else to consider if that is not the final shooting position...

Shoot to get out of the position, exit hard (on an easy target) and avoid exiting on steel.

...or so I've been told.

[XRe]

+1 to Jake and Flex. The easy target allows you to get to the shooting more quickly, as you don't have to be as stable/steady when you start shooting as if you started with a more difficult target.

You're right - it's very dependant, too. I usually look at how I'm exiting, too, and make sure that my chosen engagement order doesn't force me into a really awkward entry or exit... Edit - Sharyn made it in before I finished typing. +1 to that, too

Edited December 5, 2005 by XRe

[ParaJoe]

OK it looks as though I'm on the right track. Sharyn, I don't like entering or exiting on a steel. I shot a stage this weekend where we entered a box and there were seven poppers and then moved to another box. That really showed me how much practice I need coming into/leaving shooting a box with steel.

JOe

[Singlestack]

It is easier to speed up than it is to slow down.

[Jake Di Vita]

For some it is...

For me it is the same either way.

[BSeevers]

I take the more open or easier target as a general stage stragedy because its usually the first shot on a string that you miss. So you are kind of playing the percentages. A/C's or 2 A's are much better than a C and a M. As an aside and mentioned already also its usually the last shot on a string that's a miss, so you try to avoid hard last shots before/while moving like US poppers.

Now you really need to practice the things you are not good at, so, yes you also must be able to "key" on the hard target first/last if the stage calls for it. Sometimes(read always) .2-.4 is a lot of time to give up and going for a partial obscured target first/last is demanded.

Good stage designers make you NOT be able to follow these "general"guidelines. At least that's how I try to design stages.

[Singlestack]

For some it is...

For me it is the same either way.

Yeah well......

You are not exactly "normal" either.

[davidball]

The easy target allows you to get to the shooting more quickly, as you don't have to be as stable/steady when you start shooting as if you started with a more difficult target.

The easy target also allows you to re-establish your index and then it is easier to "refine" that index (if necessary) when transitioning to a more difficult target.

[wide45]

Come in on the second easiest target. Lean leaving on the easiest one. Curse BSeevers for making it difficult.

[Sharyn]

FWIW, the reason I said avoid steel as a last shot when exiting a position is because many shooters pause and/or wait for steel to fall and can leave much more aggressively on a paper target... unless you're Jake DiVita...

[ParaJoe]

Come in on the second easiest target. Lean leaving on the easiest one. Curse BSeevers for making it difficult.

I'm liking this idea here. I've been working on the entry and exit a lot here recently, especially the setup. Matt's video's have been very helpful along with the posts on the forum. If I'm taking the easiest target on the way out I can be doing the "leaning" method. Makes pretty good sense.

JOe

[Jake Di Vita]

That makes sense only if the lean is the fastest way to do things.

Also targets in most arrays are usually set up in one direction from easiest to hardest...so if you have to skip one target then make a long transition back to it you have actually lost a lot of ground.

Don't overcomplicate things.

[Steve Moneypenny]

I don't think we are given enough info. every situation is different. i might do it either way. (assuming all shoot targets)

I will take the targets in the order that flows the best with the rest of the stage. Don't over complicate which target to shoot. just do what u feel is most efficient. Generally i take closest targets entering. because i can shoot them before i'm setup fully saving time. BUT if i'm leavin where the direction of my pivot/engagement will help me leave by taking the close target last then I do. So there in no real absolute on this, it is on a stage by stage basis. Also don't be affraid to be a LITTLE different... one huge stage at nats. Flex and i shot VERY differently... both to our ability I feel we were 0.02 seconds appart.

[gallardo0311]

para joe, you must be talking about the match at 5 dogs. I think the stage was called "Think inside the box". I really liked shooting all those pepper poppers, and I was shooting the stage very good and eficiently till the end when I ran out of ammo. Oh well, rookie mistake, but thats why its time I start shooting matches. There nothing like experience, and learning from mistakes. Time to buy an extra mag. I won't be to hard on myself considering it was my first real match.

[spook]

I also like the "leaving on the easy one" thing. I guess it all comes down to your strength. I somehow can enter on a difficult target but have more difficulty leaving on a tight shot. I usually take the second hardest one on entrance and leave on the easiest one, but it all depends on the scenario. Like Jake says, it's better not to overcomplicate things. If I have to swing back a loooong way, just to make the exit easy, you win nothing.

Just set up as many scenarios as you can think of and practice is what I would do. You'll see what works best.

[ParaJoe]

para joe, you must be talking about the match at 5 dogs. I think the stage was called "Think inside the box". I really liked shooting all those pepper poppers, and I was shooting the stage very good and eficiently till the end when I ran out of ammo. Oh well, rookie mistake, but thats why its time I start shooting matches. There nothing like experience, and learning from mistakes. Time to buy an extra mag. I won't be to hard on myself considering it was my first real match.

That's the one. I was just using that stage as an example. The second position where there was two targets is the one I couldn't decide which to shoot first. There were a couple of similiar situations to this and I'm trying to reduce my times the best that I can.

JOe

[davidball]

Don't overcomplicate things.

Amen, brutha.

I will take the targets in the order that flows the best with the rest of the stage.

Amen, brutha

I guess it all comes down to your strength.

Amen, brutha.

[usmc1974]

Learned something in this post good reading thanks

[openshooter]

I have a tip on leaving a box.

This works out pretty well for me. Ex: If i have to move from a box to another box on the right, i will shoot right to left. I bend my right knee a little bit. The bending of my knee controls where my upper body transitons to.

This way i sort of get my momentum going to the right before i leave the box

If i have to shoot around a barracade i will shoot the oppiste of slicing the pie. That way my momentum is going to the right. (of course this only works for USPSA)

YMMV

Edited February 6, 2006 by openshooter

[driver8M3]

Watching the very top shooters...if there is any way possible, they will take the easy/close target when coming into a position. (I call those targets "ducks".)

I don't know if that is right or wrong for everybody, but those same people are always at the top of the score sheet.

watching the 2006 limited nats super squad video, i noticed some of them like to shoot the closer target first, while others will shoot the more distant target first. some stages where you can see their different approaches were:

stage 2 (no rest for the weary)-the first position through the window has an array of 3 targets arranged near to far, with a popper even further out. some started on the popper, others on the closest paper.

stage 3 (the 2 step)-this stage had the small popper at 35 yards and 3 targets arranged near to far directly in front of the shooter. some chose paper first (TGO, though he started on the far paper since it was farther away from the popper, thus working in and towards the left [and towards the popper]), others went to the popper first.

stage 4 (big barricade)-arrays on either side of the barricade arranged near to far. some started on the closest paper, others started on the farthest paper (and at least one of them started on the steel).

stage 11 (knock knock)-the array on the left side of the stage had 3 targets arranged near to far. again, some started on the close target, others started on the farthest.

stage 15 (hot seat)-the initial window had 4 targets available at varying distances (2 of them were also available later in the stage). some of them took 2 targets, others 3...but most of them shot the close target last.